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The Cincinnati Beacon
The Two-Faced Nature of the Beacon Troll
Wednesday, May 03, 2006

Posted by Andrew Warner


The day Kabaka Oba was tragically shot, the Cincinnati Beacon published a story that gathered reactions from the scene of the crime. Certain comments made by Tyrone Smith, the leader of the S.T.O.P. Squad (a grassroots organization which aims to stop violence), deeply upset some of the Cincinnati Beacon’s most loyal trolls. 

Commenters threatened the credibility of the Beacon, so much so that the Dean put an editorial stroke on to the column removing the clearly ludicrous and outlandish comments. The complaining trolls cited a variety of offenses.

1) Tyrone Smith’s opinion doesn’t matter whether he was at the crime scene or not, whether he was Oba’s friend or not. People called him crazy and unreliable, unworthy of space in a dignified publication like the Beacon.

2) “Journalists” (though the trolls pointed out frequently how the Beacon’s journalism isn’t real) should “edit out” crazy people in general.

3) Smith lacked, what the biz calls, “inherent credibility.” Apparently some people have it and some don’t.

4) Comments from someone who lack inherent credibility, especially when charged with hateful and possibly racist opinions, shouldn’t be shared with the community.

5) Tyrone Smith’s opinion was not the news, the shooting was the news.

I know 90% of the people that read this website are intentionally unintelligible and obnoxious (people who contribute actual thought to the website aren’t included), but I will apply your criticism, from the defenders of the Enquirer, the status quo, and “real” journalism everywhere, to an article in the Enquirer today.

The news of the article (criteria 5) was the “day without immigrants” protest. A demonstration where “500 families, students and low-wage workers from the area, mostly of Latino background,” (Enquirer) gathered together to protest possible immigration legislation.

By the Beacon trolls’ opinion, again using their own criteria, one crazy senior citizen who happened to be on the scene was not the news, no matter how controversial or relevant her opinion to the story at hand.

Meet Carolyn (pictured above) from Blue Ash, 81 years of age and oozing with “inherent credibility,” right? So much so that she received two paragraphs, two quotes, and a big picture on the Enquirer web page. Now, I understand they don’t have quite the readership we do, but she received a lot more coverage from them then Tyrone Smith did from the Cincinnati Beacon.

What was the message that made Carolyn worthy of all this coverage by a small time paper like the Enquirer? “Go Home.” She was the one woman counter protest to primarily darker skinned Latinos. Clearly her message, that immigrants of all kinds are not welcome in “her” country, was directed, in a very pointed way, towards people of different ethnicities. Do the Beacon trolls promote racist hate speech from one senior citizen who refuses to reveal even her last name? If not, are you fervently writing letters to the editor explaining how they are losing their credibility? Perhaps Callinan will strike this lone gunman’s comments as did the Dean.

For some reason it seems that the Beacon is held to a higher journalistic standard than the Cincinnati Enquirer. Perhaps It could be something else. Perhaps hate speech is only worthy of criticism when it is directed at an affluent politician. When negativity is being fired at nameless “illegals,” “aliens,” “guest workers,” or immigrants, it must be news.

Give it your own litmus test trolls: 1) Is Carolyn crazier and more unreliable than community activist Tyrone Smith? 2) Should the heralded pros at the Enquirer have edited out her one woman opinion—an opinion she wouldn’t associate with her “good name”? 3) Has Carolyn somehow earned inherent credibility that blesses her with the right to quotes and a picture in a major metropolitan paper? 4) Were her comments hateful, racist, and/or unfounded with any reason? 5) Was one woman, essentially without an identity (wouldn’t reveal it) the news, or was the news the thousands of protestors on the other side of the issue?

Since Carolyn doesn’t hold up the litmus test, perhaps the Beacon trolls only become active when an upstanding white man is the victim of someone’s negative opinion—must be Republicans, activating to help those who need it least. Why bother complaining to an editor about some blue collar immigrants?

I’m certain no one can argue that Carolyn passes the trolls’ litmus test in a logical way so I anticipate the usual idiocy that overruns the comment section. In advance I will tell you that the Enquirer was correct in publishing crazy Carolyn, because it is obvious from the piece that she was just that, a crazy old lady with nothing to say that contains a drop of substance. The same way that anyone with an IQ over 40 could tell Tyrone Smith was just a frustrated man spouting off at the mouth with conspiracy theories.


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  1. says:

    If anyone sends letters of complaint about this to The Enquirer, please consider copying them here!

  2. says:

    This is a bunch of nonsense! Can it!

  3. says:

    I agree, Blue Gill!

    That’s exactly what I would have said to that crazy lady!

  4. JAE says:

    Dean,
    Please define “troll”......are there levels of “trolls”?

  5. says:

    Trolls are similar to Yard Gnomes found all over the Tri-State in gardens!

  6. Amnesty says:

    They should’ve given better coverage to the thousand people who showed up for the cause that millions across the country took to the streets for. If we want to know what ignorant racist think all we have to do is turn on WLW, WDBZ or watch CNN and FOX.

  7. Matt says:

    I don’t think that The Enquirer is the quality news organization you are aspiring to, is it?

    The Beacon got slapped by ‘the trolls’ (as you so graciously call them) because The Beacon fucked up.  The Dean rectified it and everyone went on with life. except, of course, you.

    Who cares what the Enquirer is doing?

  8. Andrew Warner says:

    Matt,
    You show a complete inability to look at the big picture.

    For example, the Dean describes himeslf as a “media activist,” not a journalist. That title alone, a title which means one who wants to change or work towards a better media, shows the inherent need to point out what the mainstream media is or isn’t doing.

    I’m guessing you have no problem with the Dean or the Beacon when he discusses whether the Enquirer is or isn’t discussing, say, Phil Heimlich?

    If you don’t understand that one of the Beacon’s main missions is to be a watch dog of the corporate media, which, yes, means discussing the Enquirer, then you are an idiot. But then again “Matt,” I suppose you only want the Beacon to serve your distinct and specific purpose, not to identify the functions and shortcomings of media as a whole.

  9. says:

    Well put, Andrew.

    It is hard, sometimes, to remember the big picture when engaged in blog comment fights.  But I am not a journalist.  I much prefer media activist. 

    I mean, just check out the latest CityBeat cover story.  Then check our archives for stories about WAIF.

    We get the job done here at The Beacon, one way or another.

  10. says:

    If The Beacon is the watchdog of The Enquirer why isn’t it clammering for better sports coverage? The Enquirer has no coverage of the great outdoors: camping, hiking, canoeing, fishing, hunting, etc. More people participate in these activities than go to Reds or Bengals games. Why is there no coverage. In other markets the paper(s) cover outdoor activities....why doesn’t The Enquirer? Hell, it doesn’t even cover local golf or tennis at the various courses, clubs, courts,etc. Why?

  11. says:

    Huh?

  12. Matt says:

    Your post refers to as the two faced beacon trolls.  It suggests that “the trolls” should be up in arms regarding The Enquirer poor journalistic approach to the news.
    When The Beacon ran the artical on Oba there was a lively discussion regarding the quote (isn’t that exchange of ideas another positive to The Deans blog?).  The Dean chose to remove it. You have been lambasting The Enquirer for their poor journalistic abilities and then you want “the trolls” of the Beacon to do what?  Write letter to the Enquirer? Be outraged that The Enquirer might be a crappy paper?  The Beacon is held to a higher standard, as it should be.  If The Beacon is going to be the watch dog and call the mainstream media on its bullshit then it will have to be above reproach itself, which may be why the Dean took the quote off.  I don’t think you are an idiot, but looking closer than just ‘big picture’ isn’t a bad think to do every now and again.I do question your need to call me an idiot, just because I disagree with you.

  13. White Power says:

    How is the death of Oba a “tragedy.” I threw a party. Btw, I saw Andrew on tv Sunday night. He ordered some johnycakes and went on a motorcycle ride with The Dean.

  14. Andrew Warner says:

    I didn’t call you an idiot. I made a simple if-then statement:

    If you don?t understand that one of the Beacon?s main missions is to be a watch dog of the corporate media, which, yes, means discussing the Enquirer, then you are an idiot.

    Now I think you do understand that keeping an eye on the Enquirer is one of the functions of the Beacon; I just think you decided to say the Beacon shouldn’t pay attention to the Enquirer because it suited your purpose.

    The Beacon is not above reproach, that is why I am openly criticizing the Dean’s decision to remove the comment that seems to disturb you so much. A wesbite founded upon the principle of being a place where “divergent views collide,” should not remove people’s opinions because a few commenters, commenters who remain anonymous and make up multiple pseudonyms, disagree with someone’s perspective.

  15. Andrew Warner says:

    JAE,
    I was waiting for someone to define troll and they finally did. Look no further than “White Power” to figure out the definition.

  16. White Power says:

    Andrew, you are so guerilla chic. Tell me, do you wear your Che t-shirt when you blog?
    I hear that you and The Dean are working on a new manifesto titled “The Port Moron Statement.”

  17. White Power says:

    Every time I read Andrew I laugh because he reminds me of Ben Folds’ “Underground.”
    I picture some drooling Marxist with patches on his sleeves. And oh yeah, he constantly steals from the works of Chomsky and Alterman.

  18. WhitePowerIsSo1945 says:

    Shut up you skin head, and take your George Lincoln Rockwell attitude with you.

  19. Bearman says:

    Andrew, if indeed one of the Beacon’s missions is to be a media watchdog while at the same time, writing and investigating its own stories, then Matt is correct that you put yourself in the position to be held to a higher standard.

    Inferring that he is an idiot if he doesn’t understand one of the missions is counterproductive to “where divergent views collide”.  Where on the site does it say this?  While I know that there have been several stories about it, I never made the link that it was indeed a MISSION.  Stands up to be counted among the idiots I don’t know how long Matt has been reading the blog so can’t say that he would have even been able to see a pattern.

    On the other hand, I agree with you that Jason should not have edited the article after the fact.  and get even more clarification.  Rather I would have preferred the author push further.  That is why I never weighed in on that topic.

    And please...while I know you hate moderating the blog...remove statements like those from White Power as they add nothing except to try to hijack your blog.

  20. White Power says:

    So 1945? My views are oh so contemporay. Have you seen those Mexicans singing the anthem in Spanish. They won’t learn the language. Pat Buchanan predicted this in his seminal Death of the West but you liberals were too busy hating Western Civilization.
    Buchanan is seminal whereas Warner is just semen.

  21. Andrew Warner says:

    "White Power,”
    Great minds must think alike: While I’m familiar with who Chomsky and Alterman are, I’ve never actually read their work. I guess I should, if they’re anything like me, they must be great.

  22. White Power says:

    Bearman, you sound like a typical liberal. You adore all free speech that you agree with.

  23. Matt says:

    We can agree to disagree.  Another topic that could lead to a lively debate.  Should The Dean have removed ‘White Powers” comments (whatever they were) because they were too racist? and What is too racist?  btw- I get your troll reference now.

  24. Amnesty says:

    I’m all for the Dean banning white power. He’s a racist moron and if he wants to practice ignorant free speech, he should grow some balls and go say it on Vine st in OTR.

    For anyone to say the Beacon should be held to a higher standard than a Gannet paper is silly. Although the Beacon does have a higher standard, I don’t think people should complain about this free service, I’m all for constructive criticism but that’s pretty rare on here.

    If the west dies it will be a suicide. The west shouldn’t still be engaged in Imperialism.

    WP, thinks everyone steals from the Nation, Mother Jones, Chomsky and Alterman. Please provide some evidence for your theory. That would make for a good reading list though.
    When Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilization, he said he thought it would be a good idea.

  25. Bearman says:

    No actually White Power, I adore all free speech that is relevant to the topic not just off the cuff remarks that have nothing to do with the post that are meant merely to hijack a blog so the writer can get their jollies off.

  26. Jacqueline Henretta says:

    White Power, we all know your issues about being born in the wrong decade and I’m sure you have fantasies of being one of Hitler’s front men. But instead you are working the drive through. I know it’s hard but you are better than this. Put the white robe and cap down and become something better! But really, just not talking anymore would be a great start.

  27. White Power says:

    Wow, such vitriol. You liberals are showing your true colors. Allow me to review some of the stupidity I’ve read on this board:

    1) the moron who recites Gandhi to rip Western Civilization. The same Gandhi who stole his practice of peaceful resistance from a Westerner(Thoreau).

    2) The idiot who praises RFK while denouncing Bush’s program of eavesdropping. The same RFK who had Hoover bug MLK. My how you liberals love your revisionist history. The same guy also exalts JFK while ripping Bush’s allegedly illegal war. Hey pal, JFK was a hawk. Who do you think put those 10,000 “advisors” in Vietnam? Or did your radical college proff conveniently omit that info?

    3) This board’s silly obession with The Enquirer and Gannet News. Try reading some Bernard Goldberg or Bill McGowan. Gannett has a caucus in every news room that represents liberal interests. There is a gay caucus, a black caucus,etc.  Why do they exist? Because the Left is more interested in portraying these groups in a positive light than presenting the truth.

    4) the telling comments by the limousine liberal who mocks those who work in the service industry. I don’t work in the service industry but I don’t look down my nose at these people( you know the working poor that you allegedly care about). I believe there is dignity in all work. There are no menial jobs, only menial attitudes.

    In short, I am better than the whole lot of you.

  28. Reginald Van Gleason IV says:

    Hey Whitey,

    You give White people a bad name. Even I’m ashamed of you for christ’s sake.

    By the way, choke on this you right wing neonazi pussy: Bush is going down like Nixon, the whole repugnant party is going down and the Dems are going to retake Congress and impeach your crooked, idiotic president. Bush lied about WMD’s, he broke the law with illegal wiretaps, and is up to his ass in Abramoff & K Street. Bush went into Iraq with no plan for the aftermath, authorized the torture of POW’s, alienated our allies and hurt the so called ‘war on terror’. He dropped the ball on Afghanistan by launching a half assed invasion of Iraq and allowed Bin Laden escape and the Taliban to reemerge as a result. Bush is a demagogue that panders to the extremist religious right wing (aka, The American Taliban) and has delusions that he was chosen by god to be president. Bush is the worst president ever. Worse than Grant, worse than Nixon. Quite simply the worst.

  29. Don't want2bwhiteanymore says:

    White Moron, you would be amusing if you weren’t so sad and pathetic. You seem to think you know where everyone steals their ideas from. So far you’ve been off the mark and I personally think you steal all your dumb ideas from Blue Gill.

    RFK and JFK are saints compared with Bush. JFK was a hawk and he just continued Ikes policies in Vietnam. Why do you think all those history proffs are radical liberals? Because their educated. Where’s the gay and black caucus at the Enquirer?

    The limosine liberal is a poor college student.

    In short you are dumber than Blue Gill and better than no one!

  30. White Power says:

    Reggie, you are this board’s Moron Nonpareil. Perhaps you haven’t heard of this thing called 9/11. It came about because of liberals like you. There is blood on your hands. It was you pussy liberals who overreacted after Watergate and came up with the Church commission. The Church commission gutted our intelligence community ridding it of “humants"(human intelligence). You must be so proud.

    I too am disgusted with Jack Abramhoff. I only hope your hatred extends to Harry Reid and his shady dealings with JA and Indian tribes and their casions. Or does your sanctimony only run one way?

    As I mentioned, we are at war. Glad to know you are so concerned about enemy combatants. Yet I’m sure you save your venom when the topic is FDR herding Japs into prison camps. No, FDR is a liberal icon. BTW, Lincoln suspended habeous corpus durning the Civil War. The difference between these presidents and the people on this board is that they actually wanted America to win.

    I wouldn’t get to excited about Bush’s anemic poll numbers if I were you. Reagan had similar numbers at Iran-Contra and came back. Bush should lose but he has one salvation..the Democratic party.

  31. White Power says:

    And the “American Taliban” reference is priceless. Let’s not forget that the real AT, Jonathan Walker Lindh, came from hippie-dippe Marin County. I know all of you on this board have a soft spot for your fellow travelers. This board is almost a tribute to Alger Hiss and every other American quisling.

  32. Jacqueline Henretta says:

    White Crazy,
    I am no limousine liberal, nor am I a car liberal, I don’t even own a vehicle. I am flat broke, and myself work in service industries, I have been a landscaper, a tutor, in food service, hospital, floristry, you name it I have done it… being in college and all I work where I can. And I in no way look down to people, I am a kind hearted person, well maybe not when it comes to you since you are racist. I was just saying you are bitter because you couldn’t be what you wanted to be, an SS. But thanks for trying, keep on being crazy.

  33. White Power says:

    I owe an apology. The dumbest person on this board is Dontwanttobewhiteanymore.
    I was counting the minutes till some retard said Ike started Vietnam. Hey pal, of course we had a relationship with Vietnam. FDR called Ho chi Minh the George Washington of Vietnam. Going by your logic FDR got us into Vietnam. No the dividing point comes when you put boots on the ground, and that was JFK. He also put boots on the ground in Cuba till he got yellow-bellied and withdrew air support.

  34. White Power says:

    Nice backpedal, henrietta. But there is no mistaking your tone.

  35. Jacqueline Henretta says:

    It is Henretta, and I was in no way being condescending, because then I would just be insulting myself, I just said I am a broke student working the same type of job I said, are you an idiot?

  36. DW2Bwhiteanymore says:

    White Moron,
    We’re responsible for 9/11? I guess we can’t blame Bush for sitting on his ass for 7 minutes after hearing “the country is under attack.

    “Hey pal, of course we had a relationship with Vietnam.” That relationship was funding the French and having the CIA jakals there for “diplomatic” reasons. Virtually every president post WW2 could’ve been charged with war crimes. Bush should be. JFK inherited the Bay of Pigs and we shouldn’t be overthrowing governments.

    You owe us an apology for being the dumbest person on the blog.

  37. JoeRo says:

    Well, as one of this blog’s proud trolls, I guess I’ll chime in (on Andrew’s post, not on the subsequent and seemingly unrelated comments).

    I think, Andrew, that you’re comparing apples and oranges here. So let’s set up a hypothetical similar to the Oba shooting:

    Jim Schifrin is shot outside City Hall. Steve Frisch shows up and comments to the media that he thinks Berta Lambert had something to do with it, because, well, “you know, poor people...”

    Now, obviously this is totally hypothetical, but don’t you think there’d be similar outrage from trolls like me? Of course there would be. Because I’ve got a good sense of what constitutes decent journalism. And that just wouldn’t. It’d be just as ridiculous as implicating Pepper in Oba’s shooting.

    When approaching coverage, you’ve got to treat stories differently. You find different types of sources for different stories, and you ask those sources for different kinds of information. And it’s got nothing to do with “inherent credibility”—whatever that is. I don’t think anybody asked Mallory who shot Oba, even though he’d apparently qualify as having “inherent credibility.” So I don’t that’s a terribily reliable “litmus test.”

    There’s no exact science to it, Andrew, and I’m not sure if that’s what frustrates you. It’s a sense you develop over time, through making mistakes and through getting a good scoop every now and again.

    To be honest, I don’t consider myself two-faced, because I gave up on the Enquirer a long time ago. But, though I frequently disagree with you and dispproved of the journalistic choices in Jacquie’s story, I haven’t given up on the Beacon!

  38. White Power says:

    Right, you were not being insulting when you said I wanted to be one of Hitler’s men.
    You see I can go back and read your original post. Are you that much of an idiot?

  39. Jacqueline Henretta says:

    Whether you are a teacher, CPA, a bus driver, or like me a student, sometimes you don’t get to be what you want to be. My father is a CPA and he was meant to be a fighter pilot, so once again, and finally, all I was saying is that you didn’t become what you should have become, or weren’t born in the right era, etc. I am going to bed. You are ridiculous.

  40. White Power says:

    Oh yes, the 7 minutes. Good to know you get your thoughts from Michael Moore. Call me crazy but I think the 8 years Clinton and Richard Clarke did nothing was a little more significant. The first trade center bombing, the Cole, the Towers, I could go on forever. You are aware that they bombed the trade center once before?

    And spare me the “we deserved it because we put troops on Arab soil” argument. They hate us because they despise our entire culture. Perhaps as an olive branch we shouoldn’t let women like Henrietta vote.

    Dontwannabewhite reminds me of those traitors that were exposed by The Verona Project.

  41. White Power says:

    I’ve read where some of you simpletons refer to bush’s high crimes and that Bush is a war criminal. Good stuff. You do know that John Kerry testified that he committed “atrocities” in Vietnam? It reminds me of Evan Thomas and Newsweek sitting on the story about Bob Kerry slitting the throats of gook civilians while in Vietnam. Of course Evan’s granddad ran for president several times on the Progressive(communis) ticket. I only point this out because, well, you know, the media is soooo conservative.

  42. Andrew Warner says:

    JoeRo,
    First of all you’re no troll. You’ve contributed many meaningful thoughts to this and my other blog.

    Though in your imaginary situation with Steve Fristch you rearranged the conversation to shift the meaning: Smith made a retraction of saying it was David Pepper, then went on to say it was wealthy people, a scenario many readers seem to forget—in your scenario Berta is accused by Fritsch because he is poor. The proper analogy would have been for Fritsch to publicly change his mind and just say poor people were the behind it.

    I didn’t design the test, I merely extracted what meaning I could from the myriad of commenters towards our “giving a microphone to a crazy person”—this is clearly a major media outlet giving one crazy person a microphone that is almost as loud as the thousands of people that were there on the other side of the issue. 

    And it’s not an exact science, but I don’t think any of the angry commenters gave a logical position that backed up why Smith’s accusation, followed by his retraction, was irrelevant. I would happily take on a better argued idea as my own, I just didn’t see any better ideas on that particular topic.

  43. Reginald Van Gleason IV says:

    What a sad angry neonazi WP is. You can taste his desperation while his neocon dream goes down the toilet.

    BTW asswipe, Reagan’s poll numbers were never as bed as Bush’s. Not even close. His poll numbers never went below 40% Only Nixon’s numbers have been worse than W The idiot’s

    And Bush allowed 911 to happen. He and his staff of bunglers ignored the huge body of intelligence and let it happen. Bungling George then sat there reading the goat story to the first graders fro seven minutes while 3000 people died. The blood is on his hands.

    Bush lied about WMD’s. Period. Or haven’t you read the Downing Street Memos? Or do you only watch Fox News (of course you do!) BTW, Blair has never even disputed the authenticity of the Memo’s. Bush is a traitorous corrupt megalomaniac with a god complex.

    Take Jerry Falwell and James Dobson-the leaders of the American Taliban-and stick them way up your right wing ass.

    RVGIV

  44. BP says:

    "Oh yes, the 7 minutes. Good to know you get your thoughts from Michael Moore.” Michael Moore was just the first person to show it the “liberal media”. I knew about it before his movie.

    “Call me crazy but I think the 8 years Clinton and Richard Clarke did nothing was a little more significant.” You are crazy, Richard Clarke said Al Quida was on the top of Clintons list, but not Bush’s. He couldn’t get a meeting with W.

    “The first trade center bombing, the Cole, the Towers, I could go on forever. You are aware that they bombed the trade center once before?” Yes I’m aware and I’m not a Democrat so don’t bother arguing about Clinton,

    “And spare me the “we deserved it because we put troops on Arab soil” argument. They hate us because they despise our entire culture.”

    I never said we deserved it, but it was blow back. They hate us because we supply Isreal with the bombs and the tanks that they use in their occupation, they hate us because we imposed a brutal dictator(the Shah)in Iran, they hate us because we support Bush’s hand holding buddies in the House of Saud and now because we are occupying Iraq and Afghanistan.

    “Perhaps as an olive branch we shouoldn’t let women like Henrietta vote” You’re a moron!

  45. Reginald Van Gleason IV says:

    Bombs That Would Backfire, By RICHARD CLARKE

    WHITE HOUSE spokesmen have played down press reports that the Pentagon has accelerated planning to bomb Iran. We would like to believe that the administration is not intent on starting another war, because a conflict with Iran could be even more damaging to our interests than the current struggle in Iraq has been. A brief look at history shows why.

    Reports by the journalist Seymour Hersh and others suggest that the United States is contemplating bombing a dozen or more nuclear sites, many of them buried, around Iran. In the event, scores of air bases, radar installations and land missiles would also be hit to suppress air defenses. Navy bases and coastal missile sites would be struck to prevent Iranian retaliation against the American fleet and Persian Gulf shipping. Iran’s long-range missile installations could also be targets of the initial American air campaign.

    These contingencies seem familiar to us because we faced a similar situation as National Security Council staff members in the mid-1990’s. American frustrations with Iran were growing, and in early 1996 the House speaker, Newt Gingrich, publicly called for the overthrow of the Iranian government. He and the C.I.A. put together an $18 million package to undertake it.

    The Iranian legislature responded with a $20 million initiative for its intelligence organizations to counter American influence in the region. Iranian agents began casing American embassies and other targets around the world. In June 1996, the Qods Force, the covert-action arm of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, arranged the bombing of an apartment building used by our Air Force in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, killing 19 Americans.

    At that point, the Clinton administration and the Pentagon considered a bombing campaign. But after long debate, the highest levels of the military could not forecast a way in which things would end favorably for the United States.

    While the full scope of what America did do remains classified, the United States responded with a chilling threat to the Tehran government and conducted a global operation that immobilized Iran’s intelligence service. Iranian terrorism against the United States ceased.

    In essence, both sides looked down the road of conflict and chose to avoid further hostilities. And then the election of the reformist Mohammad Khatami as president of Iran in 1997 gave Washington and Tehran the cover they needed to walk back from the precipice.

    Now, as in the mid-90’s, any United States bombing campaign would simply begin a multi-move, escalatory process. Iran could respond three ways. First, it could attack Persian Gulf oil facilities and tankers — as it did in the mid-1980’s — which could cause oil prices to spike above $80 dollars a barrel.

    Second and more likely, Iran could use its terrorist network to strike American targets around the world, including inside the United States. Iran has forces at its command that are far superior to anything Al Qaeda was ever able to field. The Lebanese terrorist organization Hezbollah has a global reach, and has served in the past as an instrument of Iran. We might hope that Hezbollah, now a political party, would decide that it has too much to lose by joining a war against the United States. But this would be a dangerous bet.

    Third, Iran is in a position to make our situation in Iraq far more difficult than it already is. The Badr Brigade and other Shiite militias in Iraq could launch a more deadly campaign against British and American troops. There is every reason to believe that Iran has such a retaliatory shock wave planned and ready.

    No matter how Iran responded, the question that would face American planners would be, “What’s our next move?” How do we achieve so-called escalation dominance, the condition in which the other side fears responding because they know that the next round of American attacks would be too lethal for the regime to survive?

    Bloodied by Iranian retaliation, President Bush would most likely authorize wider and more intensive bombing. Non-military Iranian government targets would probably be struck in a vain hope that the Iranian people would seize the opportunity to overthrow the government. More likely, the American war against Iran would guarantee the regime decades more of control.

    So how would bombing Iran serve American interests? In over a decade of looking at the question, no one has ever been able to provide a persuasive answer. The president assures us he will seek a diplomatic solution to the Iranian crisis. And there is a role for threats of force to back up diplomacy and help concentrate the minds of our allies. But the current level of activity in the Pentagon suggests more than just standard contingency planning or tactical saber-rattling.

    The parallels to the run-up to to war with Iraq are all too striking: remember that in May 2002 President Bush declared that there was “no war plan on my desk” despite having actually spent months working on detailed plans for the Iraq invasion. Congress did not ask the hard questions then. It must not permit the administration to launch another war whose outcome cannot be known, or worse, known all too well.

    Richard Clarke and Steven Simon were, respectively, national coordinator for security and counterterrorism and senior director for counterterrorism at the National Security Council.

  46. Whatever says:

    "You do know that John Kerry testified that he committed “atrocities” in Vietnam?” Yes, he’s a war criminal too, not as bad as Nixon or Bush though.

    “It reminds me of Evan Thomas and Newsweek sitting on the story about Bob Kerry slitting the throats of gook civilians while in Vietnam.” You think they didn’t cover this because he was a liberal???

    “Of course Evan’s granddad ran for president several times on the Progressive(communis) ticket. I only point this out because, well, you know, the media is soooo conservative.” GE is conservative? Ruport Murdoch? Judith Miller? Give me a break!

  47. White Power says:

    Only you whackpods would consider the Downing St. memo a smoking gun.
    Richard Clarke is a proven liar. But hey, I bet you all went out and bought his book.

  48. White Power says:

    Ha! I knew a moron would come on here and mention “blowback.” Just like I knew I’d read about u.S. “imperialism.” I didn’t realize we had colonized Kuwait. I can’t wait till someone calls us a “rogue nation.”

    Bin Laden taunts the U.S. He always said we lacked resolve and would turn tail once we got our nose bloodied. He knows the Left all too well.

    P.S. twenty dollars to the first of you that calls Iraq a “quagmire.”

  49. White Power says:

    Please don’t try to talk Iran with me. You embarass yourself. The Shah had a brutal secret police but at least he was a monste -in a- box. It was Jimmy Carter and his unrealistic human rights campaign that welcomed in the mullahs. Jimmy Carter legitimized radical Islam. And his human rights campaign sure did a number on Nicaragua. Somoza was nothing compared to the Sandinistas.

    Jimmy Carter and his malaise: the country’s morale was so low we had an orgasm for merely winning a hockey match.

    Here is an example of the myopia I see in those that talk blowback.
    “We supported Saddam against Iran. It is our fault.” or “we supported Bin Laden against the Soviets. He got weapons and trainging from us.”

    They never talk about Bin Laden stopping Soviet expansion for us. Another thing, isn’t funny that Bin Laden had no problem with our support of Israel when we were arming him
    ?
    How could we arm Saddam? Because Iran was our sworn enemy. It is called a whipsaw. You take two enemies and let them fight each other. Classic Realpolitik.

  50. Stop! says:

    Bush is the liar and WAR CRIMINAL!

    Yes it is called “blowback” and “imperialism” and we are a “rogue nation” or “failed state” in a “quagmire.”

    A monster in a box? That’s good in less you live in the box. Iran had a democraticaly elected government that wasn’t filled with fundamentalists until we killed Mossedegh. They weren’t our sworn enemy until we overthrew their governmnet and set up the brutal puppet regime.

    Imagine a US President concerned with human rights. I guess you like Bush’s gross human rights violations better. Secret prisons, torture, illegal invasions and Iran Contra was really something wasn’t it?

    “It is called a whipsaw. You take two enemies and let them fight each other. Classic Realpolitik.”

    It’s called Imperialism and it’s a losing game for our people. How much has the Iraq wars cost in human lives? How many of our tax dollars go to bomb a country that didn’t attack us and was never a real threat to us?

    You would support such horrible policies.

  51. Reginald Van Gleason IV says:

    Too bad White Power’s mother didn’t practice abortion.  grin

  52. Jacqueline Henretta says:

    That is the best comment I’ve heard all day!...and yes, too bad.

  53. Matt says:

    There is a great discussion regarding journalistic choices and it is being overpowered
    by racist, bullshit rants.  I think this is so typical of discussion in Cincinnati, obfuscate the topic with talk of FRD and Japanese internment.  Is this one of the main problems we have with communication in cincinnati?
    Joero- I appreciated what you said a few posts back.  I should have kept my mouth shut and let you explain my opinion, You did it a hell of alot better than I.

  54. says:

    We can always try to refocus.

    I think Andrew makes a great point in his original post, and I have been interested to read the on-topic responses.

    But you are right about the nature of this kind of public discourse.  We can kill it, by requiring memberships that several people who might have contributions won’t bother with; we can moderate comments—giving our staff volunteers even more work; or, we can just march forward, hoping to increase the ranks of thoughtfulness.

  55. Whatever! says:

    Sorry, but I can’t let White Racists BS go without letting people know the truth. By all means continue your discussion on journalistic choices. I don’t know why I waste time arguing with a moron.

  56. Deborah says:

    White Power says:
    03 May 2006 at 10:42 pm | #

    In short, I am better than the whole lot of you.

    And this Dean, is why this guy should be banned.

  57. says:

    Come on Andrew, this is Journalism 101 stuff. If the Enquirer used Carolyn from Blue Ash as their source for the number of attendees at the march, you would have a point.  But they just asked her to give an opposing opinion on a controversial subject. The Beacon erred in asking an uninformed person to answer a question of fact (who shot Kabaka?)

  58. says:

    Change the last sentence above to read: The Beacon erred in relying on an uninformed person to answer a question of fact.

  59. says:

    No, The Beacon did not ask the question.  It was asked by all the “professional” journalists in town.  We just posted the answer.

  60. Andrew Warner says:

    Mr. Journalism 101,

    So in a piece that focuses on the reaction of people close to city hall or people close to Kabaka it was wrong to ask a friend and fellow activist who Oba’s enemies, or people inclined to kill him, might be? Especially when it very well could have been a politically motivated shooting (as it was done at City Hall where Oba frequently gave controversial speeches).

    I wouldn’t go as far to say a close friend, fellow activist, and a person on the scene of the crime is “uninformed” in who may be anti-Kabaka to such a great degree.

  61. Come on says:

    Trey, they gave more ink to a person that wouldn’t give her last name and the Beacon asked Oba’s friend his opinion.

  62. says:

    Andrew and Dean, look I think you guys are doing a good job (better than I could do). But you have to admit that Tyrone’s accusations were obviously unfactual and should not have been included in a news story.

  63. says:

    Andrew and Dean, I’m on lunch break so I’ll expand on my above comments.  To me it sounds like you are upset because people jump on any error you make to strongly.  This has some validity because it is a good time-killing site you have.  But I still think you should be men enough to admit that it was an editorial misjudgment to include in a fact-based story such obviously untrue accusations as David Pepper possibly being the culprit.

  64. ThatDeborahGirl says:

    I think I kind of feel Blue Gill on what he’s saying (this happens more and more frequently lately which scares me).

    The Enquirer has a sports section, but just like the rest of the paper, they only pander to the big sports teams (big money as usual), immensley huge events or the big sports at the “top” high schools.  There are other kinds of sports besides football, basketball and baseball.  On the local front they also tend to cover soccer as well.  Other sports activities could use some coverage as well and there are plenty.

    The Enquirer has made it their job to pander instead of to research and cover actual news about all the way down to the sports section and it’s something of a shame.

  65. says:

    Andrew and Dean, I just went back in blog-time and reread the piece and it is just an atmospheric piece and not a who dunnit it? piece.  So I retract my criticism above. I might try to analyze it more closely and so if I discover something to criticize I might post again.

  66. TL says:

    Trey, I’m glad you retracted your post.

    Deb, I think sports get more coverage than it deserves. People should focus on things that are more important, like the little old lady who’s house is being stolen by Tim “the Jurk” Burk.

  67. TomK says:

    Trolls=readers

    Without us, this whole site would just be you guys circle-jerking your egos.

  68. White Power says:

    Reggie said,
    “Only Nixon’s numbers have been worse than W The idiot’s”.
    I thought I’d revive this thread after the recent Gallup poll confirms I was right and Reggie was wrong again.

    Bush’s approval rating dips to 31%

    The president’s approval rating has slipped to a new low in USA TODAY/Gallup polling.

    A survey of 1,013 adults taken over the weekend showed 31% said they approved of the job he’s doing, down from 34% in the USA TODAY/Gallup poll taken a week earlier. Those who said they disapproved of the job he’s doing inched up to 65% from 63%. All the results have a margin of error of +/- three percentage points.

    According to USA TODAY’s Susan Page, the approval rating is the lowest of Bush’s presidency. University of Wisconsin political scientist Charles Franklin tells her that support among Bush’s “hard core” appears to be eroding.

    Since World War II, four other presidents have seen their approval ratings drop to 31% or lower: Truman, Nixon, Carter and George H.W. Bush.

  69. White Power says:

    BTW, what kind of loon quotes Psy-cho Hersh? Reggie should send Seymour some of his lithium bicarbonate.

  70. Blue Genius says:

    White Idiot, who do you quote? Drug crazed Limbaugh or maybe Bill(the perve)O’Reilly. I I loved his hard hitting reporting on Inside Edition.

    Seymour Hersh is one of the few real reporters out there, most are merely stenographers for Bush and his cronies.

  71. Reginald Van Gleason IV says:

    White Trash attacks anyone that speaks the truth, which is something that the right wing-nuts hate to hear. Whether it’s Hirsch or Richard Clarke. Until Clarke criticized Bush, the president had great praise for Clarke, who served 4 presidents, 3 republicans and 1 Dem. It’s all part of the reich wing’s smear campaign on their opponents.

    Oh, and by the way white trash, since you cut and ran from this board the idiot’s numbers are even lower, at 31%. He is going down just like Tricky Dicky!

    RVGIV

  72. Green Machine says:

    The only problem Reginald, is that the chickenshit Dems don’t have spine enough to censure, much less impeach him.

  73. White Power says:

    You morons are hilarious. Bush’s numbers are justifiably down because he won’t do anything about Juan Valdez. Not that you’ll pose a decent alternative. You are so consumed with your vitriol. You should read Cohen’s article in today’s Enquirer. Your internecine warfare will put another Repub in the White House.

    Andrew Warner thinks he is a journalist because he refers to another’s text as a “piece.” Ugggh.

    Also, Nixon hasn’t been prez for 30 years. You are all sad, lonely and vile.

  74. White Power says:

    And a civics lesson for you GED/Blogoshpere idiots: you can’t get impeached for poll numbers. For the last time, we don’t live in a democracy; we live in a representative democracy and George Bush is that representative of the people’s will.

    You whackpods never have achieve power. Maybe it would be easier to just grow up.

  75. Blue Genius says:

    Bush’s numbers are justifiably down because he lied us into a quaqmire and he’s having the NSA illegally spy on US citizens, not to mention the torture rooms and secret gulags. On top of that he’s destroying our environment like he did in Texas. He hasn’t really won an election since then. His crimes are much worse than Watergate as John Dean pointed out in his book.

  76. Nubian Oracle says:

    We are against 11+ million Illegal Immigrants

    No matter how you look at it, it is the United State of America not the United States of the Americas. If Mexicans and other foreigners want to make it here legally, more power to them. Let them use the legal means.

    Let them earn the rights and citizenship not just have it handed to them because they are here.

    The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) made the hiring of an illegal alien an offense for the first time. American businesses hire well over 10 million illegal aliens per year, with 4.2 million or more normalized into our economy. A 2005 Pew Hispanic Center survey on attitudes toward immigration, conducted in part in Mexico, found that an estimated 70 million adults in Mexico would come to the U.S. if they had the means and the opportunity.About half of those said they would be willing to move to and work in this country illegally.

    The study also found that 35% of Mexican college graduates want to come to the U.S., even if that means they would have to work at a job below their qualifications — and many also said they’d be willing to come illegallyImmigrant-rights groups will have to acknowledge that an unchecked flow of unskilled labor drives [over a million a year] down wages for entry-level jobs, rendering all poor Americans, including millions of teenage workers, less competitive.

    The reality is that most Americans won’t do entry-level labor for the meager wages often offered to undocumented workers. Also in industries where they have concentrated their work the wages have been flat and or decreased in relation to inflation.

    Those of us in Cincinnati Change who are Americans who came to America by slavery, have paid the dues, not the over 11 million illegals who broke the laws of this country and the over 5 million children they have had in America. We acknowledge that they have rights as human beings and believe that they should exercise those rights in their own country.

    On the other hand, in our country we should have a plan if they don’t want to leave America.Cincinnati Change Chairman Fred Hargrove Sr. said: ”Our nation’s immigration policy must be consistent with humanitarian values that take in consideration the needs of America’s disadvanted and with the need to treat all individuals with respect and dignity who obey our laws. We must move away from the politics of ostracizing immigrants and instead look at how we can work to meet the needs of our nation

    Cincinnati Change is calling for Congress to enact comprehensive immigration reform with a focus on the enforcement approach in which the United States immigration policies must be consistent with our humanitarian values as expressed in our laws.

    As public policy, such legislation must address genuine immigration reform that should include proposals that would allow people to earn the right of citizenship through hard work, the commitment of several years, learning english and meeting several security and related requirements.[/quote]

    We also propose a monetary solution whereas they will pay the United States $250 Billion Dollars over the next 5 years to be used in those areas with the most unemployed Americans through already established programs. This money would be used to address the larger economic needs of the nation such as the creation of job training programs and small business programs, as well as federal education assistance to those in areas already identified as in need of help through HUD so that all Americans can have enhanced opportunities. A second war on poverty - with money this time.

    We also feel employers employing those who break the immigration law should be prosecuted as should public officials and religious leaders who aid them.

    At the same time if we open up our boarders to 50 million more people under the E-2 visa then the country could look to put over 5 trillion dollars into a second war on poverty in America. Out of that 50 million those who are here as illegals could become legal for a nominal fine paid over five years - a min. of 55 billion in 2006 dollars.

    We are for 50 million Legal Immigrants who would use a changed and expanded program.

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Saturday, December 6

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on Saturday December 6th, from 10 am - 2pm.

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Today's Date in History

On today's date in The Beacon archives, we published:

International Human Rights Day Rally (2007)
Tuesday, Dec. 5 (2006)
Tuesday, December 19 (2006)
Without Industrial Pollution Bans, Smoking Ban is Nonsense (2006)
Voters Turn on Quackery, So Wulsin Applies with Department of Health (2006)
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