City Hall Enthusiast Avtar Gill

UPDATE:  Howard Beatty turned himself in for the shooting of Kabaka Oba.

Murmurs of riot and curfews echoed the streets of downtown this afternoon after Kabaka Oba, a local activist and a General of the Blax Fist, was violently gunned down outside city hall in broad daylight. Avtar Gill, a usual around City Hall, was present at the time of the shooting. As he steps around the blood and glass on the sidewalk, he states that he heard “ five or six shots, but if the woman didn’t cry out, you wouldn’t have known it was gun noise.”

“I have never heard a gunshot before,” Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz confesses to a crowd of reporters.  When asked about the relevance of the shooting, she voiced “it was a very pointed hit.”
Last week’s five year anniversary of the riots put Oba in the spotlight and Gill proposes that the “[shooters]... or [shooter], have been stalking Oba since then, and if he dies, the riots could happen again.” A source that wishes to remain anonymous states that “this was a coordinated effort to get [Oba].”  Statements of that nature ran rampant through the crowd and the streets. This is all seems surreal when just a few weeks ago Oba predicted such an event on WAIF radio.
When asked who could be behind this horrific act, Tyrone Smith of the “S.T.O.P. Squad” gives a very specific, high profile list of suspects—including at least one public official and members of the police department.
Although Smith and many others gave theories of the shooting, thoughts of conspiracy and of the unspoken were not far from mind.  Smith had just talked to Oba earlier in the afternoon, urging him to sign a petition and said, “If he had felt threatened, he would have told me.”  When it comes down to it “We only know what the people know, and we want to see what the cameras caught.”

[Editor’s Note: The second to last paragraph of this column has been edited for content.  You can see a discussion of this editorial decision (as well as the original text) here.]

Socializer!

del.icio.us

Furl It

Anonymous comments are allowed, but you can log in above to stamp your name and to avoid typing the anti-spam code.

If you are not familiar with our rules for leaving comments, click here!

1. Anonymous says:
   12 Apr 2006  at  10:40 pm | #

   Stop the conspiracy garbage.  They caught the guy that did it, case closed.  Accusations made towards the police or David Pepper are totally out of line.  The police did a great job apprehending the criminal in rather quick fashion.  It is truly a shame that this happened and I send my condolences out to Oba and his family. Even worse is the fact that the location of it just gives suburbanites one more excuse to avoid downtown.  The bottom line is:  There is no conspiracy behind this.  Any attempt to start one or to drag the police or Pepper through the mud over this is dirty and stupid.  Come on Dean you’re better than this, don’t let this garbage get posted on your site.  Help work to make the city better don’t try and say the riots are going to start again.

2. Shamus says:
   12 Apr 2006  at  10:41 pm | #

   Dean - This is garbage reporting. These unfounded accusations against Pepper and the police are utter crap and you know it. Tyrone Smith of the “Stop Squad?” Are you kidding?

   This demeans you and your blog. Hosting it makes you look like you’re an irresponsible kook. Leave the trash talk to others.

3. Disgusted says:
   12 Apr 2006  at  10:48 pm | #

   Arrest Made In Kabaka Oba’s Shooting, WCPO, 4-12-06

   At a press conference Wednesday evening, Cincinnati police announced the arrest of a suspect in connection with the shooting of a community activist outside of City Hall Wednesday. Michael Bailey, also known as General Kabaka Oba, was shot multiple times in the leg, arm and chest just after he attended a city council meeting. Police say Howard Beatty, of the West End, who they say apparently had a long-standing feud with the victim, turned himself in.

   Dean, take down Jacquie’s crap.

4. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
   12 Apr 2006  at  10:48 pm | #

   Shamus,

   I don’t understand.  Firstly, I did not write this.  The statements are quotes given by people interviewed by the reporter.  She did not know what they were going to say.

   And yes, there is a Stop Squad and a Tyrone Smith.  See the following:

   http://citybeat.com/2004-06-02/cover10.shtml

   http://www.cincynow.com/news/2004/local/07/10/westendevent.html

5. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
   12 Apr 2006  at  10:50 pm | #

   Digusted,

   I still don’t understand.  Jacquie interviewed some folks, and that is what they said.  It was reported as such.  What’s the problem?  This is a record of what people were feeling and thinking at the time. 

   I think that stands.

6. Jacqueline Henretta says:
   12 Apr 2006  at  10:53 pm | #

   So how many names do you have? Disgusted, Shamus, who ever you are;
     I, Jacqueline Henretta wrote this, and they are called quotes. The Dean had no part in these quotes. So what, the shooter was caught. I was taking quotes from citizens on the street after the shooting. Those afore-mentioned quotes reflect neither myself nor the Deans thoughts.
   Chilllll out.

7. Jacqueline Henretta says:
   12 Apr 2006  at  10:56 pm | #

   I have no qualms against David…I in fact, really like him and respect him.

8. Matt says:
   12 Apr 2006  at  11:14 pm | #

   What a load of crap. If you can’t find a story go ahead and make one up.
   Dean and Jacquie you ought to be ashamed

9. snappy name says:
   12 Apr 2006  at  11:18 pm | #

   If blacks in Cincinnati could agree on a great black leader there would surely be a great white one to join up and help lead everyone together in a movement to unite the city. Since Bill Cosby is speaking in Cincy tomorrow and he is sort of going through a rebirth at this very moment it seems like a serendipitous moment where the ingredients may be in the mix for such a thing. I actually mean this in all seriousness, btw.

10. Andrew Warner says:
    12 Apr 2006  at  11:32 pm | #

    Matt & others,
    Jacquie did a fine job reporting. She was at the scene and talked with anyone on the scene who was willing to talk with reporters.

    These people included the city hall enthusiast, Tyrone Smith, and councilwoman Leslie Ghiz. All their comments are included in the article and they all express different opinions of people at the crime scene.

    I’m assuming you wanted her to exclude the comments of Tyrone Smith, but this wouldn’t exhibit any journalistic integrity. Smith is a friend of Oba’s, a community activist, and had proof of talking with Oba just before the incident! Does Jacquie, the Dean, or the Cincinnati Beacon hold these opinions? Absolutely not! 

    David Pepper is one of the friendliest politicians in Cincinnait and no friend of mine would make an outlandish claim about him. But one of the reasons the Beacon exists is because corporate news puts a filter on the information they put out to the masses, something we obviously don’t approve of. You’re obviously smart enough to figure out if Smith’s claim has any merit, so let other people use their own brains. Good reporting is defined by putting out the facts in an objective manner, letting the reader make an informed decision… Just as you did.

11. JoeRo says:
    12 Apr 2006  at  11:33 pm | #

    This is probably the most disappointing thing I’ve ever read on your site, Dean. Sure, you can claim you didn’t write it, but in the end, it’s your site, just like the Enquirer is Callinan’s newspaper.

    The article has zero credibility. It’s a blemish on your site’s reputation. Defend it all you like by saying, “But they’re quotes. People said it.” But in the end, people say lots of things. And people feel lots of things. However, responsible journalists know how to filter out the garbage and get information from reliable, credible sources.

    If you really think that the folks that Jacquie quotes are reliable, credible sources, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

    What a disappointment. It seems you’ve slipped backwards into the juvenile fray of gossip, half-truth and trashy “man-on-the-street” reporting, which, in the end, really isn’ reporting at all.

12. JoeRo says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:02 am | #

    Andrew, I can definitely sympathize with your argument that the Beacon strives to provide an alternative, unfiltered viewpoint, but where do you draw the line? Anywhere?

13. Shamus says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:12 am | #

    Dean - The point is not whether someone made reckless, false statements to your reporter and that your reporter accurately transcribed them. That doesn’t mean it’s fit to print. You could accurately report the ravings of a street lunatic, but that doesn’t make the story worthwhile.

    This is where editorial decision-making and responsibility comes in. When you’re a publisher, you assume ethical and legal responsibilities. People say all kinds of things in all kinds of contexts. That doesn’t mean you publish them.

    Further, when you publish derogatory information that you know is untrue - even when it’s a direct sourced quote - you’re asking for legal trouble.

14. Andrew Warner says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:19 am | #

    JoeRo,
    I’m sure there is a line, but it’s not here. Someone who is an activist in the African-American community (a founder of a black on black crime group), speaking about a crime against a black man. Why do you call him trashy by the way? He is extremely involved in the community. If you don’t believe me, read an article City Beat wrote about him.

    The quotes are not presented as truth, merely as the opinion of one activist who is identified clearly in the article. THAT is reporting.

    Imagine a candidate saying something controversial in a campaign speech. Is it the Beacon’s responsiblity to say “that might offend someone, I better leave it out of the article.” If you have a problem with what Smith is saying, don’t get mad at the Beacon… The Beacon was founded so that “divergent views could collide.” We are not here to censor people, especially active members of the community.

    In summation, the article told you who he was and what he said. Why are you killing the messenger? Get mad at Tyrone Smith and the STOP Squad for spreading what you see as lies. Be happy with the Beacon for us letting you know what people different from you are saying in the community.

15. JoeRo says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:23 am | #

    Thanks, Shamus. That was a whole lot more well-articulated than I could muster at this time of night.

    The First Amendment doesn’t guarantee freedom for libel . “Knowing falsehood” (or “actual malice”) can bring a near-immediate finding of libelous action in the courts. It’s one of the first things they teach you in Law of Mass Communications.

16. Andrew Warner says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:34 am | #

    JoeRo,

    The next thing you would learn in that class is that public figures have virtually no protection from libel. I could say George Bush has sex with his mother every morning and not get in trouble.

    If a respected community leader like Tyrone Smith wants to say something, then like anyone else in the world, the Beacon will be a forum for that. Did he mean malice? No, just he was just naming possible enemies of Oba. And a few lines later, he actually says Pepper wasn’t involved! Jacquie’s further probing into his theories actually caused him to publiclly retract his statement, the same statement he gave to every major media outlet in the city, is that not good reporting?

    Your libel case would be thrown out the window in two seconds.

17. JoeRo says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:35 am | #

    Andrew,

    Thanks for commenting so quickly. To be clear: I never called Tyrone Smith trashy. I refered to the “man-on-the-street” style of reporting as trashy. It’s more on par with the New York Post and not the Times. Granted, each has its own appeal, but which is the Newspaper of Record and which is just a trashy tabloid?

    And to reiterate my point: you’re getting into a very gray legal area with regards to libel. Is it really opinion? Would you print my opinion if I told you I thought Nate Livingston shot Kabaka? This might qualify as reckless negligence…

    Anyway, I just think this type of reporting tends to discredit a source that I’d found to be otherwise generally reliable and somewhat on target. When it goes way off in left field like this, the Beacon’s foundation gets eaten away, I think. But that’s just one man’s opinion (no pun intended).

18. JoBloUs says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:42 am | #

    How about you guys give them some money for all the time they spend reporting and editing the news, take them to court, start your own blog, or shut the fuck up!

19. Jacqueline Henretta says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:44 am | #

    So what you’re saying is, the only credible sources are from people you support? That is ridiculous. I am interested in why you think a well known black community leader is trashy and not credible. Interesting.

20. David Pepper says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:52 am | #

    Like everyone else, I’m praying for Kabaka Oba’s full and healthy recovery.  This is a sad and tragic day.

21. Andrew Warner says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:53 am | #

    JoeRo,
    It’s an important conversation to have.

    Technically, we are letting you print your opinion by having a comment section. You could say anything you want and I don’t think we woulld edit it.

    I’m not familiar with the New York Post, but I would venture to say we are different from both that paper and the Times. We are a community project. Some may not remember, but we originally set out to be a place where all people could come voice their opinion, like a one-stop shop for blogging in Cincinnati.

    We did evolve into what I consider a pretty credible and reliable alternative news site and I don’t think this article takes away from.

    How else do you capture the mood of a horrific situation like Oba’s shooting if not discussing the situation with the people who were there experiencing it?

    I feel like we are starting to circle around the same points. I am sure you consider Leslie Ghiz credible, Avtar Gill is at least at every City Hall meeting, and Tyrone Smith is the leader of a group that combats black on black crime. It seems you just don’t seem to think Tyrone Smith’s status in the community is worthy of him getting ink (or figurative ink).

    Imagine if Mark Mallory or Chris Bortz had come out and made the same statement as Smith. Is that news? Should the Beacon withhold that from the public because it is “unfounded”? I Imagine you would want to hear about such statements, just as there are many people who respecet Tyrone Smith and would like to hear his statements about such an important issue.

22. TB says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:53 am | #

    No, he’s saying that conspiracy wielding fools are going to do enough damage without you and the Dean furthering their insanity.

    Try some responsible reporting for a change.  It really would be a nice change of pace for this rag.

23. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  12:57 am | #

    This is all whitey’s fault! The white man shot our brother the General. Now they are trying to pin it in another brother. I have proof that David Pepper was behind it all.

    There is no black on black violence in Cincinnati, this is how the white man covers up his crimes against the black community.

24. TB says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:03 am | #

    No doubt Nate’s a lunatic, but if you’re trying to impersonate him, at least get his email address right.  It’s .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), not unitedcincinnati.

25. Peter Deane says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:03 am | #

    [Dear Peter Deane, I told you to stop double spacing your long poems.  They take up too much space (for no reason) and I don’t feel like cleaning up behind you anymore.  I did save it before I deleted it, just in case it was your only copy.  Love, The Dean]

26. P.S. says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:17 am | #

    And for a moment I thought while I was at the Hamilton County meeting… why isn’t Livingston here?  Why isn’t anyone African American speaking up about minority inclusion?  Was Livingsto blowing his bullhorn at the library protecting the dropouts? I thought that we had bigger issues then that maybe next time he does that he can read them, as Larry Gross would say, OUT LOUD a book about tolerence… And now that Kabaca has been shot six times… another race on same race useless crime… Livingston points his finger at Pepper.  How sad.

27. Andrew Warner says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:21 am | #

    P.S.,
    The commenter above was not Nate Livingston (unless he doesn’t know his own e-mail address). The only person who mentioned Pepper was Tyrone Smith, and that claim obviously appears to be false now.

28. JoeRo says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:25 am | #

    Andrew: I’ll be sure to write a detailed, point-by-point response to your comment tomorrow. I definitely agree that it’s an important discussion, but I’m just very tired tonight. Thanks for the replies.

29. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:48 am | #

    P.S. the latest from Nate is that he’s going to be careful with his spins on this unfortunate situation, as he claims Kenny Lawson will be handling the case. 

    For those “reporting” that David Pepper had something to do with this, I suggest you look elsewhere. And just one individual in custody is only a start.

    This Jacqueline person who brought this story might want to work on that angle, rather than just picking & choosing the most inflammatory, unsubstantiated remarks.

    Dean, I realize & respect that you run an open forum, but this one is scraping the bottom of the pan.

30. WAAAAAAAAAH! says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  04:36 am | #

    I propose that all you anonymous bloggers that want to see higher standards at the Beacon start sending some donations, otherwise quit bitching.

31. Enough says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  08:34 am | #

    Let’s rise above the shit.
    This is what has caused this city to split wide open.
    A man’s life is in the hands of God, he is someone’s son, grandson, friend and I have never agreed with him, but it is time to pray for his life.
    If we all were alike, dressed alike, talked alike, had the same political views, forced to behave alike- we would be living in the middle east. But we aren’t.
    Pray that this man lives due to the talen of his surgeons and the hand of God. Stop the crap-he is a person, a human, a life.
    ENOUGH of the SHIT people. Time to stop seeing color-and yes we all can do that- IF WE CHOOSE. Pray and have good thought for him today. But stop the mud.

32. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  08:36 am | #

    I agree, Enough.  But at the same time this has opened an interesting debate about journalism.

33. Michael Altman says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  09:16 am | #

    Give her time, it is her first attempt at reporting.

34. Shamus says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  10:38 am | #

    Andrew Warner: The next thing you would learn in that class is that public figures have virtually no protection from libel.

    That may be true in this case, but it’s still bad journalism. Simply because a public figure has little or no recourse against defamation doesn’t mean that publishing defamatory statements is acceptable. As the saying goes, Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

    I agree with JoeRo. When you publish absurd information that you know to be false, the reputation of your publication deteriorates. Readers will doubt the veracity of subsequent stories you report, even when they are accurate.

    Ultimate responsibility doesn’t lie with the reporter. What gets into print is the responsibility of the editor and publisher. Journalists, including bloggers, have a great deal of power. If used recklessly, this power is abusive. That means not simply getting facts straight, but deciding if publishing a story is ethical.

35. Andrew Warner says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  10:52 am | #

    Shamus,
    I guess you and I disagree that community leaders opinions are important after such a shooting. I feel they are, you feel they should be silenced.

    Technically the Beacon has no editor or publisher, we give anyone a writing account who wants one. However, even if there were, publishing the thoughts of community leadears (especially those at the crime scene) would probably be deemed worthy of being heard.

    You also continue to miss the fact that Jacquie got him to back down from his “absurd” position. I happen to know that Smith was going to a community meeting after he was done talking to reporters… Perhaps if Jacquie did not get him on the record backing down from his position, he could have spread such supposed lies as “David Pepper had Kabaka killed” to some people who are quite receptive to such a message. But the Beacon reporter got him to change his mind, and got THAT message out to the people (the people who seem to be overlooking that key fact).

36. a woman with a clue says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  11:08 am | #

    People, step out side of the box for a moment and get a clue.  The problem isn’t about what is being reported on this sight, it is about the true problems that lie within this city.  Until people can speak out about what they feel in their heart what is going on in this city (crazy or not) then we can not go forward.  You have to let people speak about how they are feeling in order to get to the root of the problem.  It is just like is most common arguments, you say hurtful or untrue things and then you calm down realize what you have said.  This city is in the heat of an argument and no one is watching what there are saying.  Until we are ready to sit down and TRUELY listen to each other there will never be resolution to this ongoing problem.

37. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  11:09 am | #

    I resemble that remark!

    Where da white women at??

38. Cincy Riot says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  11:17 am | #

    I am crying right now.
    There is no vigil in front of University Hospital.
    Kabaka would be there for me.
    Adrian

    This hurts bad.

39. Influence Peddler says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:46 pm | #

    The statements in the post are reflective of the feelings in the community. Pepper should take heed of this message. The man on the street feels that Pepper is a threat to the activists that are trying to make things better. Defending or denying the statements because you disagree with them is a knee jerk reaction to what was said. What prompted the statements is an underlying feeling in the community that this leader is not serving the people that elect him. He spouts endlessly about how much he cares for Cincinnati and the people, but, those are just words that sound hollow.

    The Beacon encourages comments that stretch people and the boundaries of their thinking. If they were to edit out comments because they disagree or add spin to what is said they would be the Enquirer. Thank God they are here as a Beacon to light the way for those of us struggling to find information that is not filtered by the corporate media.

    This is copied from the American Society of Newspaper Editors:

    ASNE Statement of Principles
    ARTICLE I - Responsibility. The primary purpose of gathering and distributing news and opinion is to serve the general welfare by informing the people and enabling them to make judgments on the issues of the time. Newspapermen and women who abuse the power of their professional role for selfish motives or unworthy purposes are faithless to that public trust. The American press was made free not just to inform or just to serve as a forum for debate but also to bring an independent scrutiny to bear on the forces of power in the society, including the conduct of official power at all levels of government.

    ARTICLE II - Freedom of the Press. Freedom of the press belongs to the people. It must be defended against encroachment or assault from any quarter, public or private. Journalists must be constantly alert to see that the public’s business is conducted in public. They must be vigilant against all who would exploit the press for selfish purposes.

40. Male Dallory says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:47 pm | #

    Howard Beatty has an interesting history in the West End.

    He is actually on the board of Directors of the Cincinnati Empowerment Corporation.  He was appointed to that position by Dale Mallory.

    Read more here:

    http://impeachmallory.blogspot.com/2006/04/kabaka-oba-shot-beatty-lawson-and_13.html

41. Andrew Warner says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:53 pm | #

    Influence Peddler,
    It’s glad to hear from someone that understands. This wasn’t designed to be the Enquirer, it was designed to be anything but.

    As for the Dean’s “editorial stroke,” I will have something to say about that later…

42. Jacqueline Henretta says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  01:56 pm | #

    you and me both

43. Michael Altman says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  04:37 pm | #

    Jennifer Greenup, who has written the QCF Mag City Hall Beat for the last month broke the story as she has one onther in her short time at QCF.

    You can read TRUST her FACT Checked journalism just like the rest of QueenCityForum.com Magazine every Wednesday. The First Independent Weekly City Hall Report in Cincinnati. Accurate. News. Now.

44. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  04:51 pm | #

    Is that really you, Altman?

    She did not break the story.  It’s timestamped at 3:30.  It was everywhere by then, silly goose.

    So that’s really just one scoop—the Owensby thing. 

    We checked our facts, too.  Tyrone Smith really said that.

    I do hope Greenup successfully uses your platform to advance her journalism career.  But rushing home to report who said what at a council meeting is not that impressive, really.

    But we have different approaches.  At QCF, you try to advance your careers; at The Beacon, we try to get things done.

45. Michael Altman says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  06:50 pm | #

    No, we broke it, it was nowhere when we put it up. And your missing the point with the Smith thing. You have to provide some background, etc. it is rediculous, everybody sees it and has said so. Just learn from it.

    Bytheway, she goes to committees, etc. she puts in close to 10 hrs a week just on that one beat. There is a lot that you don’t know or understand about what we do.

46. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  07:43 pm | #

    Can this really be Altman?  Can he be serious?

    http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/04/12/plum.html

    WCPO posted the story at 3:01:51PM.

    The QCF Blog at 3:30.

    I just grabbed a screen shot, in case you try to change the time stamp.

47. AlyssaB says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  07:51 pm | #

    I think Greenup does a good job and should be commended, so what if she wants to be a journalist. Maybe she will write about Dumas so QCF will be fair and balanced. Democratic voters would appreciate that Michael or maybe you could do it or somebody from your team of journalists.

48. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  07:55 pm | #

    Bytheway, she goes to committees, etc. she puts in close to 10 hrs a week just on that one beat. There is a lot that you don’t know or understand about what we do.

    Oh, Altman—don’t try to talk about “behind the scenes work” and hours put in.  You have no idea what The Beacon staff does that does not involve publishing.  That’s why we call ourselves “media activists.”

49. Influence Peddler says:
    13 Apr 2006  at  10:22 pm | #

    Well said Dean, You have a site where both sides of an issue can be discussed. Before the Pepperbots returned there was very little name calling and spitballs thrown. They will go away soon and be out of work again. I think the statement was revealing of the distrust that people have for the leaders in Hamilton County. If the candidate is controlled by special interests we must not elect them. Cincinnatians are a trusting bunch but are not easily deceived for long. Pepper would do well to stand down and let the more experienced Dumas lead the county forward. He could prepare for DeWines seat and run next. In the meantime he is still a lawyer. Get some experience in something other than fundraising. Don’t just tell the people you care, show the people of the county that you care. Put his talent for fundraising to work at the Freedom Center

50. TB says:
    14 Apr 2006  at  01:43 am | #

    Learn how to read, Dean.  The WCPO story was posted at 3:03:51 PM, not 3:01:51 PM.

    As long as we’re splitting hairs, here, might as well call you on your faults.

51. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) says:
    14 Apr 2006  at  08:39 am | #

    Thank you, TB.  You are correct, and I was wrong.

    Now, let’s wait for Altman to admit as much!