The following video has three three-minute sections—each divided by a visual cue for those who wish to browse the file.  First, see Rabbi Sholom Kalmanson body-check your humble Dean for having a sign with a quote by Moses.  Next, study Justin’s video footage of a woman knocking herself out cold after losing her balance when trying to rip a sign from a counter-protester’s hands.  Finally, see three neo-Nazis walk in front of a stage and get arrested for it!

But first, some more background on each story.

The Body-Checking Rabbi

Rabbi Sholom Kalmanson turns out to be the same guy who brought the menorah to Fountain Square right after the City tried to ban the KKK.  His actions, which opened the door for the Klan to return, inspired the now infamous protests by The Black Fist.

Read more about that story here, or here, or read about Rabbi Kalmanson here.  He seems a shady character, at best.  And yes, if you can’t make out my sign, it simply states, “Thou Shalt Not Kill.”

The Sign-Snatching KO

In this Enquirer article, Lori Kurtzman writes the following:

Joe Wessels at the Post wrote this report, which includes the following:

While Justin’s footage does not capture the precise moment, it seems pretty clear what happened (and, in fact, Joe Wessels appears right on the scene, so to speak).  The “peaceful, Jewish woman” hurt her own self by losing her balance after ripping a sign from a counter-protester’s hands.

As she gets taken away on the stretcher, you can see the first appearance of the three Nazi’s.

The Nazis

Okay, Nazis suck.  Period.  No question.  But the footage here shows that they just walked in front of the crowd.  One did a hand-salute.  One had an Israeli flag tied around his ankle. 

The YouTube version of the footage is a bit distorted through the process we use for uploading videos, but the original shows that the Nazis were guilty of nothing but walking.  By the time they make it to the other side of the stage, they are already in custody.

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1. funnelcake says:
   25 Jul 2006  at  12:09 am | #

   “It’s great to see democracy in action,” he said. “I feel like there is a lot of hatred. It should be a real discussion instead of a shouting match.” -Post article quote of Justin Jeffery

   That’s the problem current politics in America today.  Everyone gets their position & talking points and never take the time to talk it through or try to see things from the other side.  It’ just pisses me off.  Screw it.  I don’t want to talk about it anymore.

2. WOW!!! says:
   25 Jul 2006  at  01:18 am | #

   A fine bit of douchebaggery, but that’s really shitty camera work. You can’t see anything you claimed happened. Are we supposed to just take your word for it?

   1. The Rabbi come out looking good. You go up to provoke him, talking about being independent media, but really you’re just being an asshole to see what kind of shit you can stir up for the camera. I didn’t see any body check and I didn’t see the good Rabbi tear your sign up. Like a douchebag you complain he is being rude for standing in front of you, when it is really you who is acting like a 20 year old on 8 cans of jolt soda. Nice pink shirt.

   2. Three morbid minutes of an old lady who knocked herself out on the pavement. Are you proud? Justin are you really trying to get an upskirt shot?

   3. You can’t even make out the Nazis in front of the stage. Again, great camera work, Justin. Maybe you should run for mayor and give up all attempts at showbiz forever. The audio of the arrest scene clearly tells us none of you really knows why the Nazis are arrested or whether they did anything. Irregardless, as Jackie would say, you douchebaggingly claim “the footage here shows that they just walked in front of the crowd.” Nothing of the kind.

   Again. A fine piece of douchebaggery that the “independent media” can really be proud of.

   Did somebody say something about Lebanon?

3. Influence Peddler says:
   25 Jul 2006  at  06:15 am | #

   Sounds like fcake has taken the position they describe as the problem. What’s next?

   Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

4. says:
   25 Jul 2006  at  07:22 am | #

   Commenter #2:

   1.  We do not go to provoke him.  You hear Justin telling me to go get Phil’s picture, and he offers to hold my sign while he gives me a still-shot camera.  As that is happening, a line of guys walks up and makes a line to block us.  As I try to walk past, he shoulders me and pushes me into a bystander.

   2.  Also three minutes of hearing what people on the scene had to say.  I think it’s clear she was not pushed, given the situation, which is the opposite of what was stated in the Enquirer.

   3.  I do not know what to tell you about the Nazi footage.  YouTube pixelates the footage.  I can see it good enough on my computer screen, but after I upload the movie to YouTube I cannot.  You are free to call me a liar (though why I would lie about this remains unclear).  Instead of complaining, why not suggest a better way for me to provide the video?

5. Gotcha says:
   25 Jul 2006  at  08:11 am | #

   Instead of complaining, why not suggest a better way for me to provide the video?

   Instead of complaining, why doesn’t Chris (WOW!!!) Finney get his own camera and put up his own video on his own blog so we can evaluate his work? Some home movies maybe?

6. Monica says:
   25 Jul 2006  at  08:41 am | #

   Dean,

   Did I see officers with assault rifles and national guardsmen at the protest/rally?

7. says:
   25 Jul 2006  at  08:45 am | #

   Monica,

   I think the people in fatigues were the Blue Ash SWAT members.  I’m not smart enough to recognize whether the rifles were assault rifles, rifles for bean bags, or whatever.  But they were holding big rifles of one sort or another.

8. f says:
   25 Jul 2006  at  09:23 am | #

   did you walk around with a though shalt not kill sign when hezbollah did the following things?

   April 18, 1983: Hezbollah attacks the U.S. embassy in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 63 people, 17 of whom were American citizens.

   Oct. 23, 1983: The group attacks U.S. Marine barracks with a truck bomb, killing 241 American military personnel stationed in Beirut as part of a peace-keeping force. A separate attack against the French military compound in Beirut kills 58.

   Sept. 20, 1984: The group attacks the U.S. embassy annex in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 2 Americans and 22 others.

   March 16, 1984: William F. Buckley, a CIA operative working at the U.S. embassy in Beirut, is kidnapped and later murdered.

   April 12, 1984: Hezbollah attacks a restaurant near the U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain. The bombing kills eighteen U.S. servicemen and injures 83 people.

   Dec. 4, 1984: Hezbollah terrorists hijack a Kuwait Airlines plane. Four passengers are murdered, including two Americans.

   Feb. 16, 1985: Hezbollah publicizes its manifesto. It notes that the group’s struggle will continue until Israel is destroyed and rejects any cease-fire or peace treaty with Israel. The document also attacks the U.S. and France.

   June 14, 1985: Hezbollah terrorists hijack TWA flight 847. The hijackers severely beat Passenger Robert Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, before killing him and dumping his body onto the tarmac at the Beirut airport. Other passengers are held as hostages before being released on June 30.

   Feb. 17, 1988: The group kidnaps Col. William Higgins, a U.S. Marine serving with a United Nations truce monitoring group in Lebanon, and later murders him.

   March 17, 1992: With the help of Iranian intelligence, Hezbollah bombs the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, killing 29 and injuring over 200.

   July 18, 1994: Hezbollah bombs the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires–again with Iranian help–killing 86 and injuring over 200.

   June 2000: United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan certifies Israel’s withdrawal from Lebanon. Shortly thereafter, the U.N. Security Council endorses Annan’s report. Hezbollah nonetheless alleges Israel occupies Lebanon, claiming the small Shebba Farms area Israel captured from Syria during the 1967 war as Lebanese territory.

   Oct. 7, 2000: Hezbollah attacks an Israel military post and raids Israel, kidnapping three Israeli soldiers. The soldiers are later assumed dead. In mid-October, Hezbollah leader Nasrallah announces the group has also kidnapped an Israeli businessman. In 2004, Israel frees over 400 Arab prisoners in exchange for the business man and the bodies of the three soldiers.

9. says:
   25 Jul 2006  at  09:26 am | #

   Silly goose!  What makes you think my sign was for one side and not the other?  It was for everyone.

   And how can you ignore the facts, that a Rabbi assaulted me for quoting Moses?

10. funnelcake says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  09:56 am | #

    “Instead of complaining, why not suggest a better way for me to provide the video?” -Dean

    Maybe he finds complaining is both entertaining and provides a sense of self satisfaction?

    You could load the video for straight download.  If you are concerned about bandwidth try bittorrent.

11. funnelcake says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  09:57 am | #

    Scratch that idea.  I really don’t want to see grandma’s underpants in high resolution.  Let me know when you videotape a wet T-shirt contest.  Then we’ll talk.

12. says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  10:37 am | #

    Perhaps the next rally could be held at the Newport Peace Bell. If the protesters could only hear the bell they’d be at peace. The Bell has magic powers we are not using.

13. f says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  11:11 am | #

    Silly goose!  What makes you think my sign was for one side and not the other?  It was for everyone.

    I just find it curious that hezbollah has been killing isrealis and americans for years and you havent said or written anything about it but when isreal fights back in a big way it is important to “not kill”

    And how can you ignore the facts, that a Rabbi assaulted me for quoting Moses?

    he was probably pissed you were misquoting moses

    “Those of us who are familiar with the original Hebrew text of the Bible find frequent occasion to whine about inaccuracies and misleading expressions in the translations that are in use among non-Jews. Many of these discrepancies arose out of patently theological motives, as Christian interpreters rewrote passages in the “Old Testament” so as to turn them into predictions or prefigurations of the life of Jesus. Some of the mistranslations, though, are harder to account for.

    For me, one of the most irksome cases has always been the rendering of the sixth commandment as “Thou shalt not kill.” In this form, the quote has been conscripted into the service of diverse causes, including those of pacifism, animal rights, the opposition to capital punishment, and the anti-abortion movement.

    Indeed, “kill” in English is an all-encompassing verb that covers the taking of life in all forms and for all classes of victims. That kind of generalization is expressed in Hebrew through the verb “harag.” However, the verb that appears in the Torah’s prohibition is a completely different one, “ ratsah” which, it would seem, should be rendered “murder.” This root refers only to criminal acts of killing.”

    http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/001102_ThouShaltNotMurder.html

14. WOWisaDouche says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  12:32 pm | #

    Commenter #2/Wow what a douchebag,

    1.It’s clear that the Rabbi acted like a thug and what he did isn’t legal. You can’t take other people property.

    2. An old lady knocks herself out by illegally tearing down a sign, you can SEE she still had half the sign as she lied on the ground and then they got an eye witness account from the victim. Jeffrey didn’t dress the lady I’m sure and it was clearly news, though not misrepresented like the Enquirer would’ve.

    3. “You can’t even make out the Nazis in front of the stage”. Yes you can and they had other eye witnesses. “The audio of the arrest scene clearly tells us none of you really knows why the Nazis are arrested or whether they did anything”. That’s because they didn’t do anything that they should’ve been arrested for. Everyone found them offensive, but they didn’t burn a flag or anything like Channel 5 falesly reported.

    The Beacon had the most indepth and accurate coverage douchebag. Who else would dare ask Philthy Phil some tough questions about his shady three centurions deal with crooked Chris Finney.

15. Commish says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  12:42 pm | #

    f, you didn’t list all the acts of war and war crimes that Isreal has committed over that same period. That’s not fair and balanced.

    The truth is that Isreal is the country that has been the main aggresor with their WMDs supplied by the US. We give them shelter at the UN from International law by vetoing Security Resolutions etc.

    We can demand a ceasefire because we give Isreal Billions and Billions of dollars worth of WMDs every year. Therefore it is our responsibility to make them stop when they use those weapons on so many innocent civillians. When the cluster bombs and white Pholsfuris drops they are US made. So instead of protesting the reaction to the aggression we support, we should protest the aggression our tax dollars are supporting.

16. Nattering Nabob says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  01:29 pm | #

    So it’s okay to kill if you claim self defense, also known as “Mom, he hit me first.” That’s been the operative approach in the Middle East for most of the past 50 years and we’ve seen how productive that has been.

    When the populations of all the countries involved comprehend that leaders on both sides of the conflict have financial interests which are served by ongoing, perpetual war - and the dehumanization of whomever they consider “the enemy” - then real change will come. In the meantime, f and others will continue to find justifications to suit their preferred conclusions. It’s a familiar and primitive line of argument only reinforced by the simplistic mainstream media reporting which dominates the airwaves. On the positive side, we have the internet now and those of us seeking more useful information don’t have to rely on the networks, nor do we have to waste time engaging in the same tired arguments with f and his ilk. Anyway, why would you want to argue with someone who is not trying to exchange ideas, but who simply wants to browbeat you? 

    “An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind.” Mahatma Gandhi

17. f says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  04:04 pm | #

    commish-

    you should feel free to list every time that israel intentionally targets innocent people.  It will be a short list.  You can list several people that were killed by collateral damage because the members of hezbollah etc. live and do their work in civilian centers but as far as times isreal decides to bomb civilian centers just for the hell of it.  good luck lisitng those

    nattering

    this time is different.  instead of israel saying you kidnapped two of our soldiers we are goign to trade them for 400 of our prisioners they have decided to get rid of hezbollah’s weapons.  I for one hope they succede.  We have enough terrorist groups to deal with and i will take help from anywhere

18. Bearman says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  04:52 pm | #

    Is anyone missing the real story here.  The Dean or someone in his entourage (Justin??) (I couldn’t tell who was talking within the entourage) actually encouraged the guy holding the sign “Israel Must Defend Herself” to go over to the protesters.  Funny that is the picture that ended up in the Enquirer.  Is this another case of the media creating the news??

19. funnelcake says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  06:19 pm | #

    “An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind.” Mahatma Gandhi --Nattering Nabob

    That’s not all that will make you go blind so you better cut that out too Nabob!

20. Influence Peddler says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  06:57 pm | #

    It would appear that f has sacrificed truth for something more intellectually stimulating. What the US is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq cannot be justified. The US leaders are committing murder daily, as are the Israeli leaders and military personnel. This is murder for profit and it must stop. What we are seeing is rationalization, not, justification.

    Destroying a nation’s food supply, power grids, bridges, etc. is sentencing people to death by starvation and famine. We are in Afghanistan and Iraq because our President lied to us and to Congress. Follow the money and see who benefits most from these actions. Our war and the terrorist’s war are no different. We blow shit up. War is a big fireworks display and just like our Fourth of July display it is high tech and it is spectacular. Just like our celebration it costs a lot of money and at the end we have nothing to show for it. In a flash and a bang the money you spent disappeared. As if by magic the money vanished and you have nothing positive to show for it. Where did it go?

21. WOW!!! says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  07:17 pm | #

    "And how can you ignore the facts, that a Rabbi assaulted me for quoting Moses?”

    And when did Moses ever say “thou shalt not kill”, provided he ever existed?

22. says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  08:00 pm | #

    I do not believe Moses existed—but his character brought the rule in Exodus.  Read a discussion here.

    I have received a number of communications of people who wish to tell me the difference between “killing” and “murder.”

    This should be rather obvious, since the commandment did not, for example, mean to prevent people from knocking down a tree.

    However, by acting like there is a difference between “murder” and “killing” in the sense of human-on-human violence—well, that is something else.  It draws in an intense amount of subjectivity while trying to draw support for one side over another.

    So, for example, when some pro-Israel supporters this weekend started this discussion with me, their rhetorical stance suggested that they are not “murdering” Arabs though they may be “killing” them.

    It is precisely this grey area of so-called justification that is the subject of international political debate…

23. Commish says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  08:54 pm | #

    "you should feel free to list every time that israel intentionally targets innocent people.  It will be a short list.”

    The list is long and that’s why you won’t include it. Of course their government never claims to “intentionally” target civillians but they do. There is no question that more palistinians have been killed that Isreali’s. Two years ago they even ran over an American girl while they were bulldozing houses in the occupied territory. 

    This was from Democracy Now today:

    Human Rights Watch: Israel Dropping Cluster Bombs on Lebanese Civilians
    Human Rights Watch says Israel is firing cluster munitions at Lebanese residential neighborhoods in possible violation of international law. We speak with HRW’s Peter Bouckaert in Beirut.

    Lebanese President Accuses Israel of Using White Phosphorus Bombs in Lebanon
    Independent journalist Dahr Jamail, who exposed how the U.S. used white phosphorus bombs in Iraq, says Israel is using the same tactic in Lebanon. We speak to him in Beirut.
    
    Our media never discusses Isreal’s crimes because their lobby is so strong here. You get more accurate coverage in Isreal and the international press.

    Bearman, good eye! That is funny.

24. Commish says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  09:19 pm | #

    f, here’s a site if you want to see some camparisons of Palistinian and Isreali deaths.

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

25. Nattering Nabob says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  11:44 pm | #

    f:this time is different.

    That’s what warmongers always say to justify themselves.

26. Nattering Nabob says:
    25 Jul 2006  at  11:53 pm | #

    “An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind.” Mahatma Gandhi --Nattering Nabob

    funnelcake:That’s not all that will make you go blind so you better cut that out too Nabob!

    What’s wrong with jerking off, funnelcake? It feels good and doesn’t hurt anyone.

    As for violence, that brutalizes its victims as well as the individuals who commit violent acts and must live with the consequences.

27. Jesus says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  12:45 am | #

    I do not believe Moses existed—but his character brought the rule in Exodus.

    There’s a difference between the character Moses in a fairy tale reportedly delivering a rule and “I was just quoting Moses”. Moses never said shit about it. Not even in the fairy tale. Don’t be a douchebag.

28. funnelcake says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  02:56 am | #

    “What’s wrong with jerking off, funnelcake? It feels good and doesn’t hurt anyone.” --Nattering Nabob

    Yuk.  Who brought up that subject?  I was commenting on the ill effects of drinking moonshine.

29. f says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  06:54 am | #

    commish

    simply giving the numbers of deaths mean nothing.  YOu claim that isreal intentionally targets civilians i say prove it.

    if hezbollah wasnt hiding in civilian centers they wouldnt be blowing up resident areas.

30. says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  09:36 am | #

    f says:
    26 Jul 2006 at 08:54 am | #

    commish

    simply giving the numbers of deaths mean nothing.  YOu claim that isreal intentionally targets civilians i say prove it.

    if hezbollah wasnt hiding in civilian centers they wouldnt be blowing up resident areas.

    Those numbers mean something to the friends and relatives of the people being murdered and they should mean something to you as a human being. Perhaps if you were there it would make a difference if you ever came out of the hole that you would have already hid in.

    I suppose you think that Hezbollah should line up and fight by rules drawn up by those that have unlimited weaponry and USA support and meet the enemy face to face on an open field. Ironically the ones that hide behind superior weaponry are still too cowardly to meet face to face, including the USA. It is too bad that they don’t push-button war but then the Hezbollah doesn’t have push buttons. When we had the cold war and the Russians had push button, I didn’t see the USA wanting to play.

    Open question: Does anyone know where one can buy Hezbollah t-shirts locally?

31. Commish says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  10:55 am | #

    f, I showed you a report of Isreal using cluster bombs and internationally banned White Phopherous. They are clearly targeting civillian areas and you say Palistinian numbers mean nothing. The fact is that many more Palistinians have died than Israeli’s. Israel is the occupier and aggressor.

    You need to turn off Fox news and start watching international outlets like the BBC and Mosiac.

32. f says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  11:54 am | #

    dieter-

    if you hide in civilian areas you cant bitch that civilians are being killed when they try to bomb you.  doenst make any sense

    commish-

    “He did not elaborate, but Lebanese media reports, which could not be confirmed, claimed Israel had used phosphorus incendiary and vacuum bombs, which suck up the air and collapse buildings.”

    http://news.aol.co.uk/article.adp?id=20060716094809990001

    those reports havent been confirmed so we dont even know if they are true or not.

    the reason isreal is targeting civilian areas is because that is where hezbollah is hiding out.  if isreal starts to bomb cities with no known hezbollah areas then you have an argument. Until then hezbollah is to blame for hiding behind women and children.

    and as far as the bbc

    “The CWC is monitored by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, based in The Hague. Its spokesman Peter Kaiser was asked if WP was banned by the CWC and he had this to say:

    “No it’s not forbidden by the CWC if it is used within the context of a military application which does not require or does not intend to use the toxic properties of white phosphorus. White phosphorus is normally used to produce smoke, to camouflage movement.

    “If that is the purpose for which the white phosphorus is used, then that is considered under the Convention legitimate use.

    “If on the other hand the toxic properties of white phosphorus, the caustic properties, are specifically intended to be used as a weapon, that of course is prohibited, because the way the Convention is structured or the way it is in fact applied, any chemicals used against humans or animals that cause harm or death through the toxic properties of the chemical are considered chemical weapons.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4442988.stm

    so to say that isreal is using “and internationally banned White Phopherous.” is kind of stupid.

33. Commish says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  12:20 pm | #

    f,Israel just deliberately bombed the UN. They knew exactly where it was. I’m sure you’ll say it wasn’t “intentional” and those numbers don’t count either.

34. Anon says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  01:51 pm | #

    f is for finney…

35. says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  03:43 pm | #

    f says:
    26 Jul 2006 at 01:54 pm | #

    dieter-

    if you hide in civilian areas you cant bitch that civilians are being killed when they try to bomb you.  doenst make any sense

    What do you mean it makes no sense? Hezbollah isn’t the one that is bitching. It is the rest of the world that is justifiably bitching and the Hez is loving it. From a tactical standpoint it is great and necessary. The Hez is fighting for the Lebanoneze and if it weren’t for Israel invading Lebanon years ago there would have been no reason for the Hez. And if we go back further, it was the Israelis that invaded and took over Palestine. This is modern history. Are the Arabs supposed to accept Israel’s actions? Put yourself in their shoes. The USA, France and England created this situation and now they can try to clean it up but I expect them to do it correctly no matter the cost. And I don’t have to accept any approach they are taking; I have no sympathy for them or Israel. Some things just hang around to bite you in the ass.

    Dieter

36. Sunfish says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  04:04 pm | #

    Beaten up by a rabbi. I don’t think the Dean could win a fight with Jim J. Bullock.

37. Commish says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  04:44 pm | #

    Well said Deiter! People just don’t like boots on their necks and to be ground to dust. They eventually fight back by any means nessacary.

    “If on the other hand the toxic properties of white phosphorus, the caustic properties, are specifically intended to be used as a weapon, that of course is prohibited, because the way the Convention is structured or the way it is in fact applied, any chemicals used against humans or animals that cause harm or death through the toxic properties of the chemical are considered chemical weapons.”

    f,Israel is using it as a weapon just like the US has in Iraq, therefore it IS an illegal chemical weapon of mass destruction. It’s been confirmed that the US used it in Fullujah on people. Too believe that it was an accident is STUPID. They aren’t using it on ghost towns, their using it on civilians. It’s very similar to napalm.

    I guess it’s Hezbollahs fault that Israel bombed the UN even though they knew exactly where it was and there was lots of communication between them. Oh yeah, it was supposedly an accident so those murders don’t count.

38. says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  06:26 pm | #

    Beaten up by a rabbi. I don’t think the Dean could win a fight with Jim J. Bullock.

    I believe in peace, Silly Goose!  Never been in a physical fight in my life!

    Violence is what happens when words fail and minds close.

39. scott says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  08:19 pm | #

    a little clarification on white phosphorus since we seem to have two people that dont know what they are saying about it talking.

    it is banned for use against civilians by the Protocol III of Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons per this section

    “Protocol III on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons prohibits, in all circumstances, making the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects, the object of attack by any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat or a combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target.”

    http://www.un.org/millennium/law/xxvi-18-19.htm

    There is no restriction against using it against foreign fighters. 

    also the united states and isreal never signed the protocol so it isnt bound by the rules so the point is moot.

    In additon there has been no outside confirmation that they were used in lebanon so anyone who says they were or werent is only guessing.

    dieter-

    do you remember why isreal invaded lebanon in 1982?  terrorist with ties to lebanon tried to assasinate isreals ambasador to the UK.  when isreal tried to establish a buffer zone between the two contries there was a massive attack on the city of galilee by palestinian terrorist.  Isreal responded by kicking some arab ass all the way to beruit. 

    tough to pin that invasions cause on isreal.

40. Influence Peddler says:
    26 Jul 2006  at  09:07 pm | #

    "we seem to have two people that dont know what they are saying about it talking.”

    Saying about what talking?

    Scott, when you choose to pretend you’re above the law, then laws don’t apply until you get hung for war crimes. It was used on foreign fighters in Iraq and of course on civillians at the same time when they leveled the city of Fullujah. There are reports that it was used in Lebanon so it’s an educated guess and I’ve seen reports that Israel was using unknown chemical weapons in the past.

    “tough to pin that invasions cause on isreal”

    When someone almost gets killed that is a good enough reason for a full invasion of a country?

    I guess, when Israeli’s lives are precious and Arabs lives don’t count. Using that kind of logic you can jusify just about anything. Even occupying other peoples lands, bulldozing their houses and stealing their water.

    It’s easy to pin the bombing of the UN on Israel and it appears to have been deliberate using a US precision guided bomb. It’s time to demand a cease fire and an end to the annual multi-billion dollar funding of Israels WMDs.

41. scott says:
    27 Jul 2006  at  07:09 am | #

    Scott, when you choose to pretend you’re above the law, then laws don’t apply until you get hung for war crimes.

    ok let me help you out here.  since the US did not sign Protocol III they are not bound by it. In fact if you signed it you still have an out and cannot be bound by the terms for one year after you give intention to the UN and then you would no longer be bound by it. 

    If you are so worried about international law applying to everyone why are you giving a free pass to hezbollah for their war crimes of hiding out in civlian areas, not wearing a uniform etc.  That is right they didnt sign the geneva convention so they arent bound by it.  just like the US didnt sign this protocol so they arent bound by it

    So a quick recap.  The US did not sign the treaty so isnt bound by it.  The attack in fallujah was agaisnt fighters not civilians.  .

    When someone almost gets killed that is a good enough reason for a full invasion of a country?

    so are you a hippie that doenst remember or a young person who doesnt know.  It seems the paragraph threw you off a little bit so i will put the events of 1978 in order for you with numbers.

    1.  The attempted assasination
    2.  Isreal responds only to create a military buffer zone
    3.  An attack on the CIVILIAN of galilee by the groups that later become hezbollah
    4.  Then isreal kicked some lebanese ass all the way to beruit. 

    It is often (incorrectly) stated that isreal’s invasion was in response to the assination attempt.  It was not the invasion occured after their CIVILIAN AREA were attacked.  That is justification for an invasion.

42. Chuck says:
    27 Jul 2006  at  12:02 pm | #

    Independent journalist Dahr Jamail is in Beirut and has spoken to some of those doctors. We reached him earlier today.

    DAHR JAMAIL: Yesterday, I went to the Beirut University Hospital. It’s one of the larger hospitals in Beirut, and I was speaking with the assistant director there. His name is Bilal Masri. And he told me—first off, we were talking about the casualty situation, and then this led into the white phosphorus situation in Southern Lebanon. And first off, he said that they were receiving very many casualties there, mostly from the south, being brought into them by the Red Crescent and Lebanese Red Cross, and that 55% of all the casualties in Beirut, according to Mr. Masri, were children 15 years or younger.

    He then said another startling statistic, that 30% of all the casualties are dying. And this was an extremely high casualty rate, far higher than anything they saw during the Lebanese Civil War, meaning that of every one hit, 30% of the people are dying outright. And I asked him why, and he said that it’s because the Israelis are using these bombs that can penetrate through bomb shelters, that there’s been so many refugees seeking shelter in basements or in bomb shelters, and the Israelis are bombing the bomb shelters. Warplanes are bombing the bomb shelters where refugees are hiding. And also there was such a disproportionate number of children being killed and wounded, because children, he said, were the least able to really escape when the bombings began. Children were the least able to really effectively run away and get to safety themselves.

    While we were talking, he said that it was actually confirmed by the Ministry of the Interior in Lebanon that the minister himself did confirm that the Israelis have dropped white phosphorus in Southern Lebanon, and interestingly, just before I had gone to this hospital, I was at a refugee camp in a city park in downtown Beirut, and I interviewed an old man, a 76-year-old baker, who had told me that they fled Nabatiya down in Southern Lebanon, which is the city where it is suspected that this white phosphorus has been used and where it was confirmed by the Minister of the Interior, and this old man told me that they left because when the bombings there began—this was within the first few days of the attack, within the first week, that is, I’m sorry—that he left because his family was so afraid, because nearby where they lived, homes were being bombed, and inside the buildings and outside the buildings, they were glowing, as he described it. He said, “There were fires, that—of course, we know what regular fire looks like, but this was not that—that the buildings were glowing. We were all very afraid. We didn’t want to get anywhere near it. And they kept bombing, and so we decided to leave.”

    But without a doubt, I think the most important thing that people need to understand right now is that the Israelis are using white phosphorus in Southern Lebanon, and also it’s been unconfirmed, but the Lebanese Army is reporting that they are using—dropping cluster bombs from warplanes, as well, and other illegal munitions also. But that, as of yet, to be confirmed by an independent source

43. Chuck says:
    27 Jul 2006  at  12:15 pm | #

    Israels crimes go back before 1982 as you may recall. I’m not a hippie, are you a Zionist?

    The US signed conventions against napalm and got rid of its arsenal it was using in Vietnam in 2001. white phosphorus has the very same effect.

    Why didn’t the United States ever sign the convention abolishing these weapons?

    They go around lecturing the rest of the world on their rights and responsibilities and have taken note of what the U.N. said. Of course, they had a lot to say to the Iraqi government about obeying United Nations resolutions. They, themselves, think they are above it.

    The Iraq war started with the intention to look for weapons of mass destruction. Is it not paradoxical that chemical weapons were in the end used by the United States?