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Thursday, May 15, 2008
Why I Love HUGO CHAVEZ
Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
Photo courtesy of here.
Guest article by Rixio Barrios
I am Venezuelan residing in the States. I was born in a middle class status, my parents the son and daughter of poor and humbled folks who came to Caracas to find a better life. I grew up among my middle class friends, never struggling for much, always having what I needed but not what I wanted—which was fine by me.
During my high school years Venezuela encountered a series of violent events due to an uprising by the people in response to government changes which caused inflation to rise at alarming rates. Everyone went out into the streets and protested day and night against these measurements, clearly imposed by great world powers. This situation left many of us barely above the poverty status and most below it. But nothing truly changed.
At the age of 19 I left Venezuela for the States looking for a better chance, since my country seemed to not have much for us middle and lower class youth. Most of my friends stayed but a lot of us left to the US and Europe, most likely forced by the situation.
The failed coup d’état against the fascist government of the day in 1992 gave us hope. Hugo Chavez told Venezuelans after his capture that he was guilty along with his fellow soldiers and that new ways must take our country through a different path. My heart felt this man, the fact that he, like a true hero would give himself up and face the media with showing no remorse for what he tried to accomplish. He went to jail unlike all the corrupt crooks like Carlos Andres Perez. He was the leader we were looking for then.
In 1998 he was by an overwhelming majority of votes and ever since that moment he continues to work for the average Venezuelan to create a better country and a better Latin America. That is why I support Hugo Chavez, The Bolivarian Revolution and the changes that the world is experiencing and the massive private media refuse to show everyone. I thank the Cincinnati Beacon for existing and giving everyone a chance to read my story which is our story. The story of humanity.
I feel this is not my Revolution; this is our revolution, the revolution of humanity against corporations and profits over people. We are in a process of evolution once again and it is time to evolve or perish.
To reach Rixio Barrios please write to
Rixio is the coordinator of an international grassroots movement called the Bolivarian Circles and they are all around the world. The circles support Hugo Chavez, The Bolivarian Revolution and a social democratic alternative of governing.
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15 May 2008 at 07:10 am | #
PROCTOR AND GAMBLE maintains plants and offices in Venezuela.
As all Cincinnatians know P & G is an excellent worldwide employer that provide well above average retirement benefits.
When Proctor and Gmable opened it’s new corporate headquaters (known by some as the Dolly Parton Towers) in the 1980s, an open house was held. The lobby featured a history of P & G with many photos, displays, and accounts. One such account was about an African American employee who came to Cincinnati from Alabama in the 1880s, worked in the factory until about 1915 or after, then returned to Alabama.
When the employee returned to his home state he did not realize that he had accumulated upwards of $200,000 in P & G stock. Proctor and Gamble had to hire a private detective to locate this gentleman so they could send him the stock that he had accumulated over nearly 30 years of employment. Two hundred thousand dollars around 1915 would provide an excellent retirement back then. I mean consider that a new car cost about $500, a house may have sold for $2000.
The same applies in 2008. The average factory worker at P & G retires with probably a minimun of $2 million in P & G Stock. The further up the ladder the better the retirement. Hear tell of a story about a married couple who worked at the P & G plant in Agusta, Ga. retiring with about $5 million in P & G stock. Not bad for 30-35 years of hard work. The couple probably will receive the maximum in Social Security benefits. Not bad at all.
BUT IN VENEZUELA what happens to a P & G employee who has put in 35 years of loyal employment? Does he get to keep his stock? Is it confiscated by Chavez and his government? Honestly, I do not know the answer to this. So, Rixxo Barrios, please let me know.
Hear tell of another story where a Venezulan woman was called into a government tax office and asked why she had so much money in her bank savings account. She said she was saving for retirment, and was promptly told that the government will provide for in her retirment and that her savings now belonged to the government. I recall reading this some time ago, looked for links on Google, couldn’t find any, but if I do will gladly suppliment this.
Not all of us were fortunate enough to land a career with P & G. But many of us worked hard, took a part time job occasionally, and took advatage of the Individual Retirement (IRA) savings that began during the Nixon-Ford years.
Then when President Reagan introduced the concept of the 401k savings plan as part of his tax package early in his first term, many jumped on board.
A side note here: Many Democrats did not approve of IRAs and 401ks citing that the tax shelters afforded to these plans cost the governmet tax revenue.
So for those who took full advantage of plans offered for retirment, worked hard and saved, then became 60-somethings, take their grandkids to Disneyworld, they will look around and wonder how many Cubans or Venezulans make the same jaunt with their grandkids. Not many, I’ll bet.
Last year we, with sevral couples, went to an all-inclusive in Cancun. We met people from all parts of the U.S., Canada, Germany, England, and many other places, BUT NO ONE FROM CUBA OR VENEZULA. Just because we did not meet any people from these countries doesn’t mean they weren’t there. But I am betting that there were NONE there.
So my queston to Rixxo is what does someon from Venezuela who has worked hard all of their life, saved and invested, reaches their early to mid 60s and wants to enjoy life by traveling do? How do they accomplish this?
And when you left Venezuela at age 19 to come to the U.S., how difficult was it to get out. How about a 19 year old NOW who wants to get out. How long will it take and how long will it take ten or twenty years from now.
A 19 year old who wants to leave Cuba has to get on a small boat with several others and risk his life in the 90 mile trip to the United States. Have you ever noticed that on his way here that he does not see very many (if any) Americans in small boats on their way to Cuba. I wonder why.
15 May 2008 at 07:29 am | #
We all have our roles.
Some like to lead.
Some like to follow.
Some have comfort in their existing lives.
Some do not.
We are all equals, we simply choose the roles that we are best at or feel most comfortable with.
Some may feel that their choices are limited by their circumstances. Circumstances of choice and circumstances of birth. Circumstances that are reinforced by policy and circumstances that are dictated by policy.
Some choose the intellectual battle.
Some choose the physical battle.
Some choose both.
The battle will be to turn non-humans into humans. We are all enfranchised, human or not, so we must make humans out of the ones that have chosen not to exist. Once we have convinced them to become human, we then must convince them to choose freedom. So this task is two fold and must be done in the order described. This will take time.
I have filled all these roles in my somewhat modest life. Modest in age and means. Most of us, in our lives, have done the same.
We all have our roles.
If you exist, you have entered the battle. You know what to do. Do not alienate those that choose roles that are different, or less meaning, or less influential.
Rixio, you have chosen to exist, to make a differnce. I hope your journey leads
you to fight for freedom, not power.
We all have our roles.
15 May 2008 at 05:32 pm | #
I sure wish the government would come in and take over my meager savings in exchange for a secure retirement, including medical care. Sounds great. Welcome Rixio.
15 May 2008 at 06:33 pm | #
This post should get the wingnut ilk riled up.
Scotty, can the ‘poetry’. we’re still waiting for you to off yourself, per your previous post.
15 May 2008 at 09:08 pm | #
It is a shame you have no personal drive more than that- but i guess that is how you wind up a democrat.
16 May 2008 at 06:50 am | #
cincysuz says:
15 May 2008 at 05:32 pm | # I sure wish the government would come in and take over my meager savings in exchange for a secure retirement, including medical care. Sounds great. Welcome Rixio.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--persons25 says:
15 May 2008 at 09:08 pm | #
It is a shame you have no personal drive more than that- but i guess that is how you wind up a democrat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Cincyzuz: Vote for Obama or Hillary and you just might get your wish.
To Personal25: You are correct!
CLINTON DIRTY TRICKS: Lets go back to the first two years of the Bill Clinton Administration after he rammed through one of the largest tax increases in U.S. history. Remember, Candidate Clinton campaigned on the promise of a middle class tax cut. Shortly into office President Clinton sadly told the nation that it just can’t be done at this time.
As if that was not enough, early in 1994 it was revealed that the Clinton Administration was exploring ways to generate even more government revenue.
The Clintons had two tricks up their sleeves’ that were thwarted by the Republican takeover of the Senate and Congress after the ‘94 election.
Bill clinton explored a way to tap into each and every pension fund in the United States to include every state, city, federal and corporate pension fund. The pension funds would have been required to invest up to ten percent of it’s portfolio into government programs.
I posted information on this on another subject and will paste it.
White Male says:
12 May 2008 at 04:04 pm | # Obama and Clinton are one in the same. The only difference is that Obama names a Republican, Ronald Reagan, as his inspiration. Some choice.
Didn’t Ronald Reagan often name Harry S. Truman as an inspiration?
But you are right Dean of Cincinnati in that Obama and Hillary are one in the same.
OBAMA has been supplied with data that confirms the revenue generated from the current 15% capital gains tax is greater than revenue from the 30% capital
capital gains tax that Obama so desparatedly wants. Obama has replied that he wants everyone to pay their fair share. Yet when one person saves $30,000 in capital gains taxes in one year, that $30k goes right back into the economy and generates even more revenue. But Obama does not get it. 70% of those who pay capital gains taxes earn less than $100k per year.
I’M WAITING FOR THE VERY FIRST PERSON TO CHALLENGE OBAMA OR HILLARY on the matter of ECONOMICALLY TARGETED INVESTMENTS. Dean of Cincinnati, I do not know if you recall during the Clinton years when after his hefty tax increase (one of the largest in history) Clinton floated ideas for even more revenue. President Clinton sent Secty of Labor Robert Reich out and about the country promoting ETIs, a program that would require EVERY STATE,FEDERAL AND CORPORATE pension fund to invest as much as 10% of its portfolio into government programs.
Robert Reich gave the following testimony before the Joint Economic Congress Committee on 6-22-94.
http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/reich/congress/062294rr.htm
Reich concluded the testimony with the following:
I encourage plans to consider such investments when they make their investment decisions. America’s pension funds—$4.6 trillion and still growing—are the stewards of our economic future.
STEWARDS OF OUR ECONOMIC FUTURE? ? ? ?
WHAT HE REALLY MEANT WAS: Stewards of redistribution of wealth..Secretary of Labor Reich made an appearance on McConnell (700WLW) promoting this idea. What a fast-talking weazel!
The City of Cincinnati maintains its own pension fund, currently about $2.3 billion. Imagine the fund taking 10% and placing $230 million into a government program that would not grow at the current rate that some of its investments currently realize. Then there is the Ohio State Teacher Retirment Fund, the Public Employees Retirment System, the SERS, and then take each of the 50 states with each of their funds, plus all of the corporate funds, and then the amount held was $4.9trillion. Now it may be $10 trillion.
If either Obama or Hillary intend to return to this idea - they should it announce it as part of their platform.
Some retirment funds provide health insurance to retirees. In my wife’s recent newsletter from her fund it was made clear that providing health benefits becomes costlier every year for employees as well as the pensioners. I think a 10% hit to its investment portfolio would be devestating.
Plus, this would be a dangerous pescedent for the government to confiscate funds from the nest eggs of millions of U.S. taxpaying citizens.
DO YOU RECALL THAT CLINTON RAN ON A PROMISE TO GIVE A MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUT?
Then he rammed through one of the largest tax increases in history.
Then he looked to the private pensions for more.
DO YOU REMEMBER?
There are numerous references to the Clinton attempts to raid the private pension funds in the U.S. Thank God for the Republican takeover in 1995.
GOOGLE SEARCH
Clinton Pension Grab
Economically Targeted Investments
Alicia Munnell
RE: Alicia Munnell: She was an economist with the Boston Federal Resrerve and in 1992 she wrote that the United States has the ability to tax private pensions and the time has come to do it.
In 1993 she was appointed to an economic advisory position in the Clinton Administration:
She called for:
A one time 15% tax on all private pensions including IRA and 401k plan.s
A tax on gains made within your plans.
A tax on employer contributions.
Again, thank God for the Republican takeover of the Senate and Congress in 1995.
Here one time 15% tax would have generated a windfall of possibly $1 trillion to the U.S. Government and Clinton in addition to his tax increases passed in ‘93.
SOURCE: NEW ENGLAND ECONOMIC REVIEW, AUTHOR ALICIA MUNNELL. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Rixxo Barrios: I apologize for not welcoming you to the United States. So - Welcome! There are no limits as to what you can accomplish here.
I am interested in the question I posted with regards to a Proctor and Gamble employee in Venezuela retiring with upwards of $1 million in P & G stock. Does he get to keep it?
16 May 2008 at 09:51 am | #
I can’t claim to have a complete understanding of the Venezuela political situation, but I did spend two weeks there a couple of years ago. Two days after we left, government troops killed two protesters a block away from our hotel. Additionally, I have numerous friends living there, so I felt obligated to at least say something here.
This post seems to romanticize the Chavez situation when the reality is that things aren’t nearly as attractive as the writer describes. True, Chavez supports the poor but he is also perpetuating the impoverished state by removing the floor from the lower-middle class. He then uses the government wealth to occasionally throw them a bone [making sure to use it as propaganda for a later date], trying to win them over to his side.
What is ignored here is that Chavez has taken a first world country and is quickly transforming it into a third world nation. Individual liberties [especially the right to criticize the government about anything] are being taken away. In the last year he finally had to restructure the monetary system because an American dollar equaled thousands of Venezuelan Bolivares. If it were not for the vast oil reserves in the country, Chavez would have no bargaining chip whatsoever.
I am not against some concepts of socialism per se, but what Chavez is creating is far from ideal. It is a corrupt dictatorship where dissenting opinions are silenced. Note that my objections are not centered around Chavez’s contempt for the American government, but rather for the way that he has taken a beautiful nation and destroyed it out of personal greed.
16 May 2008 at 12:24 pm | #
So Rixio Barrios you love Hogo so much- then I think it is time you move back to help support his military regime. He stands and yells how much he HATES the US- well- I bet I can get you a flight to Mexico City and then a flight to Caracas.
Want to help and support him- go it there- but not here. Yes there is freedom of speech in the US- but not there- so you choose to stay here. There he does nothing more than a real “Keep the people” down. Just like his best bud Castro has done for years. I know people who have gotten in and out of Cuba for years with relief work- our government turns a blind eye to this-and the conditions aren’t that great. Yes free health care that is much better than health care here- but the living conditions for the poor is definately 3rd world.
So pack ya bags- the plane leaves tomorrow dude! Arm in Arm you may be!
16 May 2008 at 02:37 pm | #
cincysuz says:
15 May 2008 at 05:32 pm | # I sure wish the government would come in and take over my meager savings in exchange
AND FURTHERMORE, CINCYSUZ.....while you may be willing to give up your “meager” savings in exchange for retirement and health benefits, what say you about someone with a self directed I.R.A. that took the advise of his broker and bought Microsoft at issue, then bought more the next year. In addition, he has made other wise investments, and at age 55 he is sitting well into 7-figures.
Do you want him to hand over his nestegg to the government in excange for a secure retirement? Of course, his standard of living would be LOWER under the government retirement as opposed to a comfortable retirement that he saved and planned since he entered the workforce.
I’m sure there are those out there who think maybe the government should confiscate all retirement funds fron state pensions, federal pension plans, city pension plans, all of the 401k, I.R.A. and other similiar vehicles. That would include all of those selfish P & G folks who are accumulating all of that stock and, heaven forbid, passing it on to their kids and grandkids.
Currently there is probably about $11 to 12 trillion stashed away in all private pension plans - think what the government could do with that!
16 May 2008 at 05:33 pm | #
AND FURTHERMORE WHITE MALE don’t talk to me.
16 May 2008 at 10:45 pm | #
White Male: You need to put some tin foil inside of your hat. And you really should take the whole Prozac from now on, stop breaking it in half.
17 May 2008 at 07:55 am | #
.Cincy*Capell. says:
16 May 2008 at 10:45 pm | # White Male: You need to put some tin foil inside of your hat. And you really should take the whole Prozac from now on, stop breaking it in half.
Care to explain that one?
17 May 2008 at 08:01 am | #
cincysuz says:
16 May 2008 at 05:33 pm | # AND FURTHERMORE WHITE MALE don’t talk to me.
Why, because I raise some valid issues?
I’m still waiting to hear from Rixxo Barios regarding the P & G retirees in his home country. I want to know if they get to keep their stock that they accumulated over a lifetime of employment.
What do you think, cincysuz. I know that you think suz - it should go to the government and be distrubed among all citizens. I mean, why, should one person have such a comfortable retirement. And, heaven forbid, get on a plane and fly to Disneyword with the grandkids!
I will be out of commission in a few days - so I won’t bother you.
Will be drivng with 8 guys in 2 SUVs for a few days of golf and beer drinking.
Do people in Venezuela do that?
17 May 2008 at 10:34 am | #
You don’t raise valid issues and you get busted enough by others on your illogical points, so why should I bother? And how would Rixio know the specifics of your friend’s retirement? Ex-pats and foreign workers get all kinds of perks and protections but usually avoid that sticky tax obligation that the rest of us are subjected to. Research that law yourself. And your friend’s seven figure retirement? Undoubtedly dirty money unless he’s done SRI, socially responsible investing. Can’t imagine a friend of yours giving a shit about anything or anybody beyone his or her own backyard.
Que hora es - He’s my invited guest. He’s welcome forever. I bet you’re a war supporter. Are you writing from Iraq?
17 May 2008 at 04:03 pm | #
Will be drivng (sic) with 8 guys in 2 SUVs for a few days of golf and beer drinking.
Ooh, along with a few nights of hot White Male on White Male action!
Hurry home, White Whale. We cannot WAIT to hear ALL the details!
17 May 2008 at 04:40 pm | #
And your friend’s seven figure retirement? Undoubtedly dirty money unless he’s done SRI, socially responsible investing. Can’t imagine a friend of yours giving a shit about anything or anybody beyone his or her own backyard.
SRI, SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE INVESTING? That is a new one.
Someone, and it wasn’t me, got rich when they jumped in at issue with Microsoft, Google, and many others. Did they do something wrong?
17 May 2008 at 04:43 pm | #
Dirty White Boy says:
17 May 2008 at 04:03 pm | # Will be drivng (sic) with 8 guys in 2 SUVs for a few days of golf and beer drinking.
Ooh, along with a few nights of hot White Male on White Male action!
GOLF TRIPS ARE PART OF THE AMERICAN DREAM.
YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?
I’ll bet it’s not part of the culture in Cuba, Venezuela, China or North Korea.
EVERY HEAR OF A BUNCH OF LADIES GOING TO CHICAGO TO SPEND A FEW DAYS ON THE MIRACLE MILE, AND GOING NUTS IN AND OUT OF THOSE SHOPS/STORES ALONG MICHIGAN AVE.
It’s bonding.
17 May 2008 at 09:09 pm | #
GOLF TRIPS ARE PART OF THE AMERICAN DREAM.
Mmm, don’t you just know it, darlin’. Especially when you get a hole in one!
<i>It’s bonding.<i>
And how, especially if you’re doing it right! Wishing you and the boys a marvelous trip. Have fun with your putters, sweetness. And I don’t need to remind you that those Titleists are expensive, so keep an eye on each other’s balls!
18 May 2008 at 12:01 pm | #
from cincysuz........
You don’t raise valid issues and you get busted enough by others on your illogical points, so why should I bother? And how would Rixio know the specifics of your friend’s retirement? Ex-pats and foreign workers get all kinds of perks and protections but usually avoid that sticky tax obligation that the rest
I was asking about a Venezulan citizen who put in 35 + years with P & G at the Caracas plant. What happens to his earned stock? Thought Rixio may have had a clue. Maybe Rixo had a relative who worked for P & G. Was the relative free to take the grandkids to Disneyworld or the wife on an Alaskan cruize?
Getting busted is more like getting ambushed.
I raised the question as to what exact tax plans for Obama and/or Hillary has in store for us. Any suprises? We all know they want the Bush tax cuts to expire.
Suppose President Obama announces that Ward Churchill will become his Secretary of Labor, I’ll bet there will be quite a few raised eyebrows.
The Wall Street Journal sure raised it’s eyebrows when President Clinton nominated Dr. Alicia Munnell to an economic advisory position. In fact the WSJ refered to the woman as the PENSION TAX QUEEN. Remember, she is the one who called for the one time 15% tax on the value of all private pension plans including 401k, IRAs, etc. The investment community was not very pleased with he confirmation by the Democratic Senate in ‘93.
And there was the most Revrend Jesse Jackson who called a 5% tax on the $6 trillion held in private pensions in a speech at the 1996 Democratic Convention.
I think it is a reasonable and fair question for a presidential candidate to answer.
18 May 2008 at 12:12 pm | #
Why are the moderators of the beacon allowing someone to insinuate that “white male” is gay as an insult?
In the past JJ has threatened to not post comments that called him names anymore and I would think that rule should be important enough that if it is good enough for him it should be good enough for anyone. Also why allow gay bashing on your site? obviously the post are meant to be an insult.
18 May 2008 at 02:11 pm | #
built59 says:
18 May 2008 at 12:12 pm | # Why are the moderators of the beacon allowing someone to insinuate that “white male” is gay as an insult?
In the past JJ has threatened to not post comments that called him names anymore and
DIRTY WHITE BOY PROBABLY ISNT A GOLFER. Our wives used to accompany us, however, they got tired of being in charge of the beer,keeping it chilled and being responsible for cleaning our equipment,clubs, balls, etc. Dirty white boy is concerned with the carbon footprint golfers leave.
18 May 2008 at 03:36 pm | #
built59, I never suggested that being gay was an insult or that there’s anything wrong with White Male going off with his buddies on their “golf” weekend. Obviously you have a filthy imagination. Au contraire, I think it’s ducky to see him spreading his message all over the pages of the Beacon. May they all improve their strokes!
18 May 2008 at 08:42 pm | #
Dean:
As frustrating as it may seem to people.
I appreciate the latitude.
Any time I post a topic, I simply request people to stay on topic, but I do not wish to prevent someone from posting.
If someone has something to say, and they put it down on screen, then it is important to them.
We all have our roles.
19 May 2008 at 02:01 pm | #
steve carr, I don’t believe that Chavez is by any means perfect or beyond criticism, but he is certainly not a dictator. There were international election observers present (Unlike US elections). The BBC covers him as a “democratically elected” leader. In the US our government and corporate controlled media have backed dictators in the name of “Democracy” and the CIA has overthrown democratically elected leaders in Guatamala, Chile and throughout the region and world.
Chavez was democratically elected in free and fair elections. He was overthrown in a US backed coup and then restored to power by the people. He has a 70% approval rating. A TV station backed the coup and only years later have they shut them down. (Imagine if ABC backed a coup in the US. They’d be shut down and the leaders would have been hung.) More recently Chavez pushed a referendum and lost in another legitimate democratic process.
Compare with the US.
We had a stolen election in 2000 and 2004. Bush’s approval rating is barely 30%. The corporate media helped sell a bipartisan war based on lies. We have seen the rich getting richer at the expense of average working Americans. Our public resources are handed over to private corporations on a daily basis. When Cheney was told that the American people don’t support the war he said, “so”. Bush is a war criminal that hasn’t won a legitimate election since he was a Governor.
Que hora es?, I support Chavez and Evo Moralez. I don’t support Bush or the Republicrats. I’m a citizen and I’m not going anywhere. People that think I should leave my country if I disagree with its corrupt government don’t understand what it means to be a patriot. It is unAmerican of you to try and stifle dissent, the country was founded on it. 80% of Americans think the country is heading in the wrong direction.
built59, I have threatened to not post comments that call people names. I haven’t been able to moderate lately and it’s harder to catch when people insinuate things. It becomes more subjective and sometimes we’re too busy to read all the posts carefully and we just scan them looking for things that are obvious.
It is unfortunate that people can’t seem to stay on topic and can’t refrain from petty personal attacks. This thread-like so many others-has been hijacked by the usual suspects. It’s too bad because we hope to create lively debates instead of just the useless drivel that you find at so many other blogs. I think we should be tougher in our moderation. Our goal isn’t to have the biggest number of childish or off topic comments, it’s to have interesting discussions about important issues.
19 May 2008 at 05:08 pm | #
Que hora es?, not only is Chavez not keeping his people down, he’s helping countries like Argentina escape the disastrous policies of the IMF and World Bank. When Katrina hit and President AWOL and his oily administration were off shopping and jet setting, Chavez was ready to send needed supplies that could’ve helped to save lives, but the US refused the help and became the problem.
Chavez is not only helping poor Venezuelans, but he’s helping poor people in poor countries and he’s helping poor people in the US. Vos sos tonto!
19 May 2008 at 06:42 pm | #
#1 I have a strong dislike for Bush- VERY.
#2 Have 2 relatives that have gotten stuck in Iraq after they have notaritized letters telling them that they would not be deployed due to the nature of their speciality. WRONG. Told they would only do 121 days-since they are AF- but got leased out to the Army- and are under and ARMY deployment of 195 days. THEY LIE
#3.If this is the best of America running for President- we are in trouble. We do not have a strong candidate in either party. Face it. Obama is a fabulous public speaker. Clinton-Why are we stuck in the Clinton Bush rotation of the Presidency, McCain-Huckabee-Don’t even get me started here.
#4. Other than Boy Wonder who left Venezuela as have many others escape the Chavez regime instead of fighting, I have talked to several others who have left because of the safety of their families. They do not like Chavez, they have said he is another Hitler and the disappearing sons is just proof of it.
#5 People are right, when you are on vacation in some of the resorts, you see people from many S. American countries. But you NEVER see anyone from Venezeula working the resorts in any position, management to housekeeping. NEVER. So, that tells me that you can’t have the right to just leave! So explain that? These people do make good money, but where are the people from Venezeula? Huh?
#6. If he is so well loved and received, then why don’t we see any imports from there like we do our winter fruit from Chile and Argentina? Explain please?
There is something more to this than just political crap people, there is international commerce that not one person has mentioned but the first poster.
And stay on topic gang. No more name calling children.
Sign me in as Yo Mama tonight.
19 May 2008 at 07:08 pm | #
Que hora es?, my point was that you can disagree with someone without telling them to move out of the country. Sorry I wasn’t very clear about that. Sorry, my espanol is no bueno.
Comparing Chavez to Hitler is ridiculous. Again, he is not a dictator, he was democratically elected. I understand not everbody in his country likes him, but most do (70%).
I don’t follow your logic that because some people have told you that they don’t see people from Venezuela working in resorts as housekeepers etc means that Venezuelans can’t leave. And different countries have different resources. We do see a lot of oil imported here. What’s your point?
You’re talking about White Males post? White Male doesn’t believe global warming is real. To back up his claim he linked to a think-tank that is funded by oil companies and even his own comments here at the Beacon. I’m not taking his word on anything. Besides he was asking a question. What makes anyone think Venezuelans should want to go to Disneyland?
Cuba and Venezuela are not the same. Cuba has been strangled by sanctions from the worlds only Superpower for 50 years. The American government won’t let US citizens go to Cuba, that could be why you don’t see Americans going there. They do have good health care in Cuba.
20 May 2008 at 11:27 am | #
No they dont. Cuba has a two tiered health care system. If you are in the top level you get very good care. the bottom level not so much.
BTW when the price of oil goes down Venezuela economy will collapse.
Venezuela remains highly dependent on oil revenues, which account for roughly 90% of export earnings, more than 50% of the federal budget revenues, and around 30% of GDP.
If someone in the united states drilled for oil the way that chavez allows it JJ would be attacking them like crazy for raping the planet. Everything they have and pay for is done with oil profits- the same profits that he decries when they are from exxon.
20 May 2008 at 04:53 pm | #
arms65, that sounds like the US! The only difference is that Cuba is a third world nation that has been strangled by the world’s only Superpower. The Superpower leaves millions of children without health care. Cities like Detroit and Cincinnati have higher infant mortality rates than in Cuba. We have 18,000 people that die every year because they don’t have health care because of our careless, for-profit, pay or die system. Millions are uninsured, millions more are under-insured and the rest are ripped off.
Michael Moore had a TV show called “The Awful Truth”. In one episode they had a contest where they had a person in the US, one in Canada and one in Cuba with the same condition. Guess which country the person got the quickest treatment in. Then guess which country came in last.
What makes you think the price of oil is going to go down? I wouldn’t hold my breath.
You’re living in fantasy land. I haven’t “attacked” anyone for “raping the earth”. Make no mistake, if the US backed coup had worked and Chavez wasn’t restored to power in a popular uprising, the puppet in charge would still allow oil to be drilled. Instead of this resource going to benefit the Venezuelan people, other Latin American countries and poor people in the US, it would be going to benefit some big corporation’s bottom line.
Exxon gets subsidized by our corrupt government. They are making record profits, have spent billions to pretend there’s a debate on global warming and they haven’t paid for the massive destruction their oil spill caused, which not only was devastating to our environment but it ruined communities and livelihoods that have been around for generations.
(Note) Did you know that Condi Rice had a Chevron oil tanker named after her? And she’s the poorest millionaire in the administration that is marinated in oil.
21 May 2008 at 09:26 am | #
That is an unfair comparison. You cannot compare the some of the cities that have the highest rate of infant mortality to an entire country encompassing both urban and rural areas. The infant mortality rate in cuba is about equal to that of the united states. With regards to infant mortality statistic the single payer system you praise gives the same overall results as the system in America you attack.
i am sure you enjoyed the TV show which was propaganda. For every story you can provide where someone in the united states didn’t get treatment quickly i can play on google and match you with the story of someone that left canada to come to america to get treatment because they had to wait too long.
Oil will eventually decline in price as the US dollar increase in strength. This is probably a couple years in the offing but monetary policy will eventually even out. Did you know that if the dollar had the same strength as it did in 2002 that a barrel of oil would come down in price to 60-75 dollars depending on which economist you listen too? IF oil revenue are 50% of the government budget then a decrease in the value of oil by about 50% will take out about 25% of Chavez’s money.
So I am a little confused here. Venezuela has destroyed about 41% of their original rain forest and it id going through the most rapid deforestation in any of the tropical countries. Oil drilling (both directly and indirectly) is a major factor in this action. Are you saying it is ok to slash and burn your way through the rain forest to drill for oil so long as the money goes to the people instead of a corporation? That seems to be what you are saying which seems a strange argument for someone who claims to support the environment. Could you please clarify for me with a direct answer as to whether or not you think it is ok to destroy rain forest to drill for oil if it raises the standard of living for a country?
Chavez has only oil to thank for the current situation he is in now. as oil prices decline over the longer term he will be in loads of trouble
21 May 2008 at 01:59 pm | #
bad48, it’s hard to keep up with all your names. Why is it unfair to compare major cities in the world’s most powerful nation to a small third world country that has been strangled with sanctions by a superpower for over 40 years?
It’s funny that you mention “propaganda” because actually what happened was the broadcasters propagnada department (I think it was ABC) called Michael Moore and said that Cuba can’t win and that they’d have to change it. He said ‘what do you mean Cuba can’t win? Cuba did win.’ They said they would have to change it and he said no. It turns out they changed it anyway and made Canada the winner even though Canada came in second and the US came in last.
Well, instead of youtube why don’t you go to the World Health Organization or some other credible source and see how low the US ranks compared to every other industrialized nation in health related issues.
What makes you think oil will go down and the dollar will go up? And it’s not Chavez’ money it’s the Venezuelan people’s money.
I do not support deforestation. My point was that this would still be happening if Chavez wasn’t in power and the money would be going to private corporations instead of the people.
As an American, I’m more concerned with the destruction of the Appalachian Mountains and the destruction of our environment in this country. It is up to the Venezuelan people to change their environmental policies and the Chavez government is more popular and democratic than the US backed regimes of the past.
I don’t support opening Northern Alaska for drilling either, but if it is going to happen-and both parties seem to support this- the oil and revenue should benefit the American people instead of the Bush administration’s oil buddies.
Again Chavez (unlike Bush) was democratically elected and most of the Venezuelan people approve of what he’s doing. He is doing deals with Argentina to trade oil for their cattle etc. His music program for kids is world renowned and he is diversifying the economy as he helps other nations break free from the disastrous policies of the IMF and World Bank.
Again, what makes you think oil prices are coming down any time soon?
21 May 2008 at 06:08 pm | #
because it is cherry picking to do so. Inner cities in America have higher levels of drug use and lack of prenatal care than other areas of the country. That is why infant mortality rates are higher in cities than rural areas in most cases. If we are cherry picking areas I am sure i can find some counties in America that have a 0 infant mortality rate. For me to use the lowest numbers in the nation is as unfair as it is for you to use the highest numbers. If we want to have a serious debate we should at least make an agreement not to blatantly skew statistics in our favor. Lets include everything and start from an honest point.
Again this was only one case made by someone with an agenda in Michael Moore. anecdotal evidence is not proof.
Here is a page full of cuban problems in health care
http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm
Because the economy functions in cycles. Right now america is either in a slowdown or a recession (yet to be determined) when it comes out the dollar will increase in value.
You cannot support chavez and oppose deforestation. He is the leading cause of deforestation in the tropics for all rain forest. To simply say it would be happing anyway is taking the easy way out. I oppose deforestation and therefore oppose chavez. I would have thought a green party member would do the same.
I am sorry you feel this way. The destruction of rain forest has a much greater environmental impact than the destruction of the Appalachian mountains. The fact that you would ignore this fact in your blind following of chavez is troubling.
hitler was democratically elected and at one time george w bush had a 91% approval rating. neither of these two points proves anything
In which way is he diversifying the economy. Oil is a greater part of GDP now than when he took over. Right now 50% of the government revenue is dependent on oil. That seems like the opposite of diversification to me.
And i believe oil is coming down in price over the long term as the economy improves and the value of the dollar is increased. As fewer speculators are in the market and the dollar strengthens there will be significant reductions in oil prices and in chavez ability to fund the programs that he is currently buying people off with
21 May 2008 at 09:44 pm | #
Really, it’s not fair to compare major cities in the world’s only superpower to a small, poor third world country that’s been strangled by sanctions for 40 years? I disagree.
It wasn’t Michael Moore’s fault Cuba beat Canada and the US in a contest. You’re the one that mentioned propaganda. Don’t you think making Cuba not be first when they won is propaganda? Did you know 18,000 people die in the US because they don’t have health care?
Yes I can. I think he’s a strong democratically elected leader that is using the countries resources to benefit its people, other poor countries and even poor Americans. That doesn’t mean I think he’s perfect and there aren’t some policies I would want him to improve upon.
I mentioned the Appalachian Mountains and Northern Alaska because I think it’s more appropriate for Americans to focus on making our country better. The Appalachian Mountains are very important to the environment. You seem to only be concerned about Venezuelan deforestation.
I know you believe the price of oil will come down , but I would like you to provide some evidence for your theory. It is a limited resource. I don’t know where you get your information from, but I don’t think the site you linked to is a fair and balanced source. Try going to the World Health Organization or some other credible source.
22 May 2008 at 07:06 am | #
From Justin Jeffre.......
You’re talking about White Males post? White Male doesn’t believe global warming is real. To back up his claim he linked to a think-tank that is funded by oil companies and even his own comments here at the Beacon. I’m not taking his word on anything. Besides he was asking a question. What makes anyone think Venezuelans should want to go to Disneyland?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What makes anyone think Venezuleans should want to go to Disneyland?
Have you been there (Disnwyworld in Fl) not Disneyland in California? You will encounter large groups fron various South American countries, usually a lot of school groups.
I think you understand the point I am attempting to make Justin. Let’s say the retired P & G factory worker is 63, has put in 40 years at the P & G Caracas plant and has a nice nest egg that would make it possible for him to live comfortably in retirement that could include travel if he so desired.
Let’s further say that that fellow raised three children, supporeted them throguh college and grad school and paid for a wedding. Now, kids grown and are independent, he and the wife want to do a few things they just never got around to because of raising three kids and helping them with college.
Ok, he doesn’t want to go to Disney World.
But, being a Venzeluean, he has followed the career of Davey Conception druing the years of the Big Red Machine. He used to think that someday he is going to take the wife to Cincinnati and see a Reds game. Well, now he can afford it.
MY POINT is simple. Does he have the freedom to call a travel agent and book a flight to Cincinnati. Heck , while in the U.S., why not see New York City, and a few other places of interest. When he returns he and the wife both agree that they would love to take an Alaskan cruise next year.
But, Justin Jeffre, has Chevez and the government confiscated the man’s Proctor and Gamble stock? Has the comfortable retirement that this fellow has worked towards for 40 years been taken away by the Venezuelean government?
Would Justin Jeffre want to see the United States go in the same direction over the next 30-40 years so that by 2050 we are all on the same level with no one having much more than the other. I dont’t think I will be around then, but my kids will then be well into their retirement and grandchildren will be planning theirs.
Now consider Justin that I and my wife have given our children an example of an excellent work ethic. They are well into their careers and fully understand the value of hard work, punctuality, and responsiblity. When they come to the end of their careers would you want to take away what they or anyone else has earned?
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You look at me as a kook because I don’t believe in global warming.
I look at someone as a kook because they don’t believe that we landed a man on the moon in 1969, or they may believe that the Earth is flat.
My research continues Justin. Just have been quite busy.
24 May 2008 at 01:18 pm | #
Who says Venezeulans can’t travel? Did you read the post by the guy that came from Venezuela? Who said the government took away the guys stock? Who says other people don’t work as hard as the guy who worked at P & G? Why should the oil proifts go to a US corporation instead of to the people?
24 May 2008 at 03:47 pm | #
From WTF: Who says Venezeulans can’t travel?
WHITE MALE: No one said that.
From WTF: Did you read the post by the guy that came from Venezuela?
WHITE MALE: Yes.
From WTF: Who said the government took away the guys stock?
WHITE MALE: Ir was not stated.
From WTF: Who says other people don’t work as hard as the guy who worked at P & G?
WHITE MALE: It was neither stated or implied.
From WTF: Why should the oil proifts go to a US corporation instead of to the people?
WHITE MALE: I don’t understand the question.
Maybe WTF should ask:
Why should the profits drug profits go to a US corporation instead of the people?
or
Why shoulf food profits go to a US corporation instead of the people?
or
Why should soft drink profits go to a US corporation instead of the people?
or
Why should utility profits go to a US corporation instead of the people?
or
Why should beer profits go to a US corporation instead of the people.
or
Why should entertainment profits go to a US corporation instead of the people?
or
Why should manufacturing profits go to a US corporation instead of the people?
or
Why should NFL, NHL, NBA, or MBL profits go to a US corporation instead of the people?
or
Why should hotel profits go to a US corporation instead of the people?
or
Why should airline profits go to a US corporation instead of the people?
BTW WTF Hillary Clinton and Obama both have said that we should TAKE oil profits.
So, that has been said.
RE the post from the guy from venezuela - I don’t know when he left the country. And, I do not know if people can come and go freely at this time or if they will be able to ten or twenty years from now.
RE the guy’s stock - It was a question. I was taken to task by cincysuz as she said I should do the research myself. I thought that maybe the poster from Venezuela may have the answer and could save me the time.
RE the guy working as hard as any one else - I just don’t know what you are getting at.
RE Oil profits - The oil companies pay billions, billions and more billions in corporte taxes.
RE Oil profits - If you have a 401k or IRA you are into oil WTF. Many mutual funds have heavy investments in oil. At this time I can’t locate it, but in a recent statement from both my and the pension plan of my wife have hundreds of thousands of shares in various oil companies, which means the profits are coming to us in the form of dividends and increased value of the stock. So, much of profits are put back in the hands of hard working people in the U.S.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS WISKEY-TANGO-FOXTROT?
24 May 2008 at 04:10 pm | #
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS WISKEY-TANGO-FOXTROT
Correction - WHISKEY, not WISKEY.
Sorry>