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Sunday, March 22, 2009
Thinking about Gay Cincinnati and Christopher Finney
Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
Photo courtesy of here.
The Cincinnati NAACP recently announced that Christopher Finney had been named Chair of Legal Redress. In a press statement, branch president Christopher Smitherman said, “Chris Finney is an exceptional attorney with courage. The status quo knows that we will be fighting together for fairness and justice in Cincinnati as a team going forward.” While City Hall interests are undoubtedly concerned about this new arrangement, what does this formal relationship between Finney and the local NAACP signal to Cincinnati’s gay community? The National NAACP has recently come out in support of gay rights, but here locally Finney has a long reputation for his anti-gay positions.
Certainly it makes sense for organizations to partner on particular issues for which there is shared concern—as with the coalitions formed around things like the anti-jail tax campaign, or the campaign for Proportional Representation. Such coalitions form the basis for the initial relationship between Smitherman and Finney. But by naming Finney Chair of Legal Redress, this formerly issue-based alignment has become more formalized, signaling a long-term partnership—which is different from issue-based collaboration.
Check out this excerpt from The Cincinnati Post, June 23, 1994:
In other testimony, Chris Finney, a Greater Cincinnati attorney who wrote the language of Issue 3, said its main intent was “to take away from council the right to pass this (gay rights) kind of legislation and return the right to the people.” He said landlords and employers have the right not to rent to gays or employ gays if they object to their lifestyles.
“How does the sexual behavior affect whether or not a gay can eat in your restaurant or hold a job in your company?” asked Scott Greenwood, an attorney for Equality Foundation. Said Finney: “Because there may be some who don’t want their family dining next to a homosexual couple whose actions they find offensive.”
This article from The American Prospect shows the direction of the national NAACP in regards to gay rights:
The NAACP has been walking a tightrope on gay rights. Polls show that African Americans overwhelmingly oppose gay marriage, but much of the high-level leadership of the nation’s oldest civil-rights organization opposes legal efforts to deny gays the right to marry. Last week, the national office of the NAACP leapt into the fray when it sent a letter to California legislators urging them to support legislation that would repeal Prop. 8. After meeting with the National Black Justice Coalition, a black LGBT-rights group, and the leadership of the California State Conference, NAACP Chairman Julian Bond and NAACP President Ben Jealous agreed to come out publicly in support of repealing Prop. 8.
The move thrusts the NAACP into the middle of a fight that, until now, it has largely avoided, because of the risk of alienating both board-level leadership and rank-and-file members. The California legislature approved a nonbinding resolution yesterday describing Prop. 8 as an improper revision of the state constitution. The resolution contends that Prop. 8 should have passed a two-thirds majority of the legislature before being placed on the ballot. The California Supreme Court is scheduled to hear challenges to Prop. 8 on Thursday.
Jason Bartlett, deputy director of the National Black Justice Coalition, was excited by the NAACP’s move: “It’s the boldest thing I’ve seen in some time, definitely the boldest thing that they’ve done on gay rights. … It’s historic.” Bartlett argues that the NAACP intervening on behalf of gay rights will give other black leaders and organizations cover to do the same…
So while Finney’s appointment as Chair of Legal Redress may very well send a message to the political status quo, what message does it send to other area progressives? What message does it send to Cincinnati’s gay community? As a progressive organization, should the NAACP be working actively to reach out to its natural partners, like other progressive and grassroots organizations and people?
Just last week, the Queer Cincinnati blog posted this item, featuring a media round-up of protests of what the gay community is calling a “hate crime.” For people like Chris Finney back in 2003, violence against gays should not be classified as a “hate crime.”
Here’s Finney from The Enquirer, February 17, 2003:
Ten years after Cincinnati voters overwhelmingly voted to prohibit gays and lesbians from receiving protection from discrimination under the city’s laws, several groups in the Queen City are ready to ask voters for a recount.
One group, called Citizens to Restore Fairness, was created specifically to work for the repeal of Article XII, the 1993 amendment to the city’s charter…
The city’s new law makes it a first-degree misdemeanor, punishable by up to six months in jail, to harass, menace or deface someone’s property because of his or her sexual orientation, age or disability. The law, first passed in 1995, already applied to crimes motivated by hatred based on race, color, national origin or religion.
Although clearly outnumbered at a recent public hearing on the new law, a handful of opponents lined up against council’s action, threatening to sue if council passed the addition to Cincinnati’s hate crimes law.
Phil Burress of Citizens for Community Values said those council members voting in favor of the expanded law would pay for their votes on Election Day. Chris Finney, a lawyer for the conservative anti-tax group Citizens Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes, told council that expanding the hate crimes law would make a mockery of the 1993 vote.
“It’s amazing to me, after all the turmoil this city has been through, that this City Council would drag this city through an issue that’s already been decided,” he said.
Smitherman has, at times in his political career, had the support of Cincinnati’s gay community. From The Enquirer, October 28, 2005:
EQUALITY TICKET: Equality Cincinnati, the gay rights group that emerged as the successor to last year’s effort to repeal Cincinnati’s Article XII, has endorsed nine candidates for Cincinnati City Council: Democrats Eve Bolton, Laketa Cole, John Cranley, David Crowley, Samantha Herd, Damon Lynch III and Wendell P. Young; Charterites Christopher Smitherman and Nick Spencer.
After losing his first re-election bid, Smitherman placed blame, in part, on Cincinnati’s gay community, as archived here.
That leads him to the biggest disappointment of his re-election campaign: the failure of the gay white community to return the favor. Smitherman says he traded a lot of political capital to support the repeal of Article 12, an unpopular issue with his African-American base.
But he hasn’t seen the gay community support Roger Owensby Sr.‘s campaign to get justice for his son, an unarmed man who died in police custody in 2000. Nor did they lend meaningful support to his re-election campaign, Smitherman says.
“When the repeal of Article 12 happened (they said) ‘We need to be on the Buzz (WDBZ, 1230 AM), we need to be on WCIN, we need to be on 1320, we need to be at every church everywhere,’ so we know that you know where the churches are, we know that you know where the radio stations are,” Smitherman says. “But when one of their biggest advocates is up for re-election and then they’re reading The Enquirer—that maligned their community, that doesn’t support them—and then you believe what you read in The Enquirer about me, there’s something sick about you.”
He says the gay community must address racism within its ranks, which contributes to a rift with the African-American community.
“They, meaning the gay community, take no responsibility for that disconnection,” Smitherman says. “They just say, ‘The black community is homophobic,’ not ‘We’re just adding to the broken relationship by taking and not giving.’ “
He concedes that racism can flow both—many—ways.
So Smitherman has a long relationship with Cincinnati’s gay community. In the CityBeat excerpt above, Smitherman makes valid points—and perhaps the gay community needs to address the degree to which they are willing to advocate actively for non-gay issues. As a political collective, gay Cincinnati could achieve more visibility if they took on a wider variety of issues, perhaps. But one can’t help but wonder what Finney’s recent appointment might mean for relations between Cincinnati’s gay community and Cincinnati’s Black community.
Such concerns could be eradicated if the Cincinnati NAACP were to endorse any upcoming campaigns from the gay community. Similarly, the gay community might consider listening to the concerns of the local chapter, and supporting local efforts—like the current petitions regarding the Cincinnati streetcar, for example.
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22 Mar 2009 at 11:39 am | #
Dean -
Way to feign outrage. I’ve asked before though, and I’ll ask again. The Democrats have had control of the County Commission for almost three years now. They have it in their ability to extend domestic partner benefits to County employees, but they have done NOTHING. They’ll issue a worthless proclamation on GLBT Day, but what are they doing to better the lives of the gay community?
They DO have the power to do so. It doesn’t require a change in the law or the Ohio Revised Code. It is merely a change in internal personnel policy, which the County Commissioners control. Instead of setting up straw men, why don’t you get to the source of the problem - the Democrats who we in the gay community constantly vote for and who give us nothing when they are in power.
Will there be an expose on Portune/Pepper and their arrogant disdain for the gay community coming up next? I doubt it. Phony.
22 Mar 2009 at 11:42 am | #
The source of your outrage is curious to me. You presume, perhaps, that I know more than I do.
I thought, to earn DP benefits, a couple had to be registered somewhere—hence the purpose of DP registries in places like Cleveland and Toledo.
If you think I am interested in “protecting” Democrats, then you are obviously new to The Cincinnati Beacon.
I am happy to send an email to the Commission President. In fact, I’ll do it right now.
22 Mar 2009 at 11:43 am | #
I just sent this:
22 Mar 2009 at 12:38 pm | #
Hey Hock,
Please provide any source to substantiate your claim that you have raised this issue with the County Commission. Otherwise, you are the one who is a poser, sir.
22 Mar 2009 at 02:52 pm | #
Hock Schmock -
I never said I raised the issue with the Commission. I did raise it on the Beacon a couple of months ago. So shove it.
Dean, I appreciate you sending the email. I am a long-time Beacon reader, and do understand that you are not in the business of protecting Democrats. My post wasn’t meant to be a dig at you necessarily. I just think it’s more important to dig our teeth into issues that can effect some positive result (or at least ferret out the phony politicians who pander for votes and then do nothing while in office).
Thanks for looking into it. I’m eager to hear Commissioner Pepper’s response.
22 Mar 2009 at 02:57 pm | #
Sorry I don’t remember the details of all anonymous blog comments.
22 Mar 2009 at 03:03 pm | #
Slight modifications to the above Post excerpt:
In other testimony, Chris Fannyslapper, a Greater Cincinnati attorney who wrote the language of Issue 13, said its main intent was “to take away from council the right to pass this (black rights) kind of legislation and return the right to the people.” He said landlords and employers have the right not to rent to blacks or employ blacks if they object to their color.
“How does the color affect whether or not a black person can eat in your restaurant or hold a job in your company?” asked Scott Lunchcounter, an attorney for the NAACP. Said Fannyslapper: “Because there may be some who don’t want their family dining next to a black couple whose actions they find offensive.”
22 Mar 2009 at 03:10 pm | #
Nice article.
I find it odd that conservatives that claim to be for liberty and limited government would work to prevent the others from having the freedom to live their lives however they choose to.
22 Mar 2009 at 03:11 pm | #
Loserville,
As a matter of fact, I had this happen once, years ago, at Nick’s Chops and Chasers in Oakley. A white guy at the table next to mine could not stand the site of me with my wife. The staff had to remove him from the restaurant, and they compensated our dinner.
22 Mar 2009 at 07:04 pm | #
Dean said - Sorry I don’t remember the details of all anonymous blog comments.
Understood Dean, back on February 13th (in a blog-post originally about Steve Chabot)I posted the following:
“I’m not trying to get off the topic, but there are many, more important issues at hand. Here’s a good one for you to look in to:
Portune and Pepper took control of the County Commission over 2 years ago, promising reform and a new tone in the County. The presented a proclamation this past summer declaring GLBT Day in Hamilton County. Nice I guess. But is it just lip service? What have they really done for the Gay community? After years of blaming a Republican majority for inaction on these issues, the Democrat majority has done absolutely nothing. How about domestic partner benefits? Something? Anything? Are they taking the Gay vote for granted?”
AND
“The County is a creature of State government, and the Ohio Revised Code. You are correct about that. But they have independent control to set personnel policies. State Universities, which are also creatures of state Govt., have changed their policies to allow for domestic partner benefits. The County could do the same.”
22 Mar 2009 at 07:34 pm | #
It is a great point, and I am confident we will get a response from Commissioner Pepper early in the week. If it is really that easy—something the County can do just by deciding to do it—then I agree it should happen immediately. Failure to do so, or failure to present explanation about why something could complicate such implementation, would expose past actions, like GLBT day, in the manner you have characterized above.
22 Mar 2009 at 08:08 pm | #
Dean,
I don’t understand why White people constantly try to link the struggles of Black people in this country with Gays. Wouldn’t it be more logical to link the Black struggle with those of other racial/ethnic minorities like Mexicans, Puerto Ricans or Haitians instead of linking them to people who are classified by their sexually deviant behavior? In following your example about dining in a restaurant, that and worse happens all the time to Black people, that is why ethnic minorities still have to fight for basic things that are taken for granted by Whites. How many Gay people complain about being offended while enjoying a meal? Most can dine in peace without any difficulty, so it’s not the same thing.
Not to belittle the plight of homosexuals in this country, because they have to face people who dont approve of their lifestyle, but having the County or any other employer providing benefits to same sex partners is not cause for outrage. After all, it is the taxpayer’s money paying for those benefits. Since October 1991, Ohio has not recognized common law arrangements, so if the County is providing domestic partner/common law benefits, they need to reassess that policy. No one should be getting taxpayer funded shack-up insurance, period.
I don’t know if I should laugh or be disappointed about the reference to Ben Jealous and Julian Bond. It’s apparent that you don’t realize most Blacks are against Gay rights, regardles of what those two men say. It has been reported that Prop 8 couldn’t have passed without Black support. With that understood, why should the local NAACP or any other group expect an attorney or anyone else to be in favor of something that their communities don’t support? If you go a step further and connect the dots between points you make in your article and the average Black person, it seems that Finney would in fact be a perfect match for the NAACP!
22 Mar 2009 at 08:27 pm | #
I guess you believe that sexual orientation is a choice. Well, that position is hardly a closed case. In fact, science increasingly indicates that people are born with traits pertaining to such orientations.
To your first paragraph, what is your point? I can’t talk about gay rights because there are other groups we could talk about, too? That is illogical. I cannot write about everything at the same time.
If you’d read the main article, you’d see that the NAACP’s new Chair of Legal Redress thinks that people should be able to refuse gay people service—like not letting them eat in restaurants, or not renting to them.
I wonder where you draw the line. Let’s go ahead and look at things people “choose.” Should I refuse to serve a Democrat in a restaurant? Refuse housing to Republicans? Really?
Yes, it is so apparent, that I even quoted as much in the main article. Do you read the articles to which you attach comments?
Is the Cincinnati NAACP breaking with the national branch on this issue? Is Smitherman changing his own previous position on gay rights? I have not heard that. If he has not, then what does that mean about your “perfect fit”?
22 Mar 2009 at 08:52 pm | #
The NAACP isn’t taking an anti-gay stand on any issue that I’m aware of. There are some members that are anti-gay and Finney is one of them. It’s too bad that there are some people that are anti-gay bigots, but I don’t think that everyone should refuse to work with them on issues where there is agreement.
22 Mar 2009 at 09:52 pm | #
Didn’t Smitherman just do a number on the city for not hiring and engaging blacks in city contracts? And then he appoints a white guy to lead the legal effort for the NAACP. He couldn’t find a single black attorney worth his weight in law books for this post. I think Smitherman is acting in a mnner consistent with the pot calling the kettle black.
As to the gay issue, I just completed a class on Women in Society - the sexual history of this country. It was fascinating, and embarassing, to have not known or understood soooo much. The required readings on homosexuality and transgender issues just blew my mind open. I would think that the black community, with the shared experience of violence, would be fully behind the gay community and intolerable of those who aren’t.
As for the gay ordinance, one thing that frustrates me is the line in discrimination law that says something about a group of people “who are perceived” to be disabled. Since so many ignorant people construct homosexuality around the issue of a mental or behavioral defect - why hasn’t anyone used this law to obtain a high court ruling that makes homosexuality part of our constitutional provisions - since most who discriminate is caused by “perceptions” not realities?
22 Mar 2009 at 11:30 pm | #
No on 3’s use of Dr. King’s image ‘shameful’
Letter to the Editor, Cincinnati Enquirer, October 24, 2004
Throughout the City of Cincinnati generally and within African-American neighborhoods specifically, one finds campaign literature that link the image of a young Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. to the No on 3 campaign.
The campaign literature is designed to make the reader believe that Dr. King, Mrs. Coretta Scott King and The King Center do not support the repeal of Article XII. In fact, Mrs. King and The King Center do support the repeal of Article XII.
The King Center went further and stated that connecting Dr. King to No on 3 is “shameful.”
I have spoken with Mr. Lynn Cothren, personal assistant to Coretta Scott King for more than 21 years. Mr. Cothren shared with me that Mrs. King does not support any type of discrimination. Furthermore, as a representative of The King Center, Mr. Cothren stated that no one from the political action committee contacted them for permission to use Dr. King’s image on any literature.
In Los Angles on Feb. 8, 1998 Mrs. King stated, “I have been an outspoken supporter of full civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people for many years In my travels I still get comments from people who say I shouldn’t be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people, and I should stick to the issue of racial justice.
“Well, that’s basically the same thing they told my husband, Martin Luther King, Jr. when he began to speak out against the Vietnam War. He responded by saying ‘I have fought too long, (too) hard against segregated public accommodations to end up segregating my moral concerns. Justice is indivisible.’
“Like Martin Luther King, Jr., I also feel strongly that justice is indivisible, and that it is plain wrong to allow discrimination against any minority. The civil rights movement that I believe in thrives on unity and inclusion, not division and exclusion.”
On Wednesday at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, Mrs. King stated, “When any group experiences injustice, it undermines the quality of justice in our society at large - it hurts us all.”
Those who oppose the repeal have used Dr. King’s image to promote discrimination. Their actions are shameful and disrespect the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
On Nov. 2, we should all keep in mind the words of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Mrs. Coretta Scott King, and vote YES on 3.
Christopher Smitherman
Cincinnati City Council Member
23 Mar 2009 at 12:34 am | #
From #12
It’s apparent that you don’t realize most Blacks are against Gay rights
Absolutely Not True!
23 Mar 2009 at 10:44 am | #
From Cincinnati NAACP appoints architect of anti-gay statute as legal counsel, 3/20/09: http://tinyurl.com/d9kudh
From: NAACP-Cincinnati Branch <naacp.cincinn…@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM
Subject: Cincinnati NAACP Executive Committee Appoints Chris Finney as NAACP Attorney
On Thursday, March 19, 2009 the Cincinnati NAACP Executive Committee confirmed the appointment of Attorney Christopher Finney as Chair of Legal Redress. Christopher Finney has done an outstanding job fighting against the jail tax, stopping red lights cameras from coming to the City of Cincinnati, and trying to reform how council is elected by supporting proportional representation (PR). Attorney Finney is standing with the Cincinnati NAACP in placing the streetcar issue on the ballot and recently protected our rights related to Council Member Berding’s effort to undermine the City Manager’s appointments to the CMHA board. Christopher Smitherman, President of the Cincinnati NAACP says, “Chris Finney is an exceptional attorney with courage. The status quo knows that we will be fighting together for fairness and justice in Cincinnati as a team going forward.”
###
From http://tinyurl.com/csayw9 (click page for links to selected e-mail addresses)
Executive Committee At-Large Members (2009/2010)
Bowen, Robert A. Jr - Elected
Conway, Adam - Elected
DeJarnett, Alexander - Elected
Farris, Erica - Appointed
Fultz, Roscoe - Elected
Godhigh, Rev. Eugene
Harris, Allan - Elected
Harris, Charles C. - Elected
Irvine, Karla - Elected
Johnson, Rochelle S. - Elected
Jones, Jim - Elected
Kidd, Franki Butler - Elected
McQueen, Lisa - Elected
Morton, Ishton - Elected
Reid, Lettie - Appointed
Richard, Betty - Elected
Richardson, Harry A.- Elected
Ross, Charles - Elected
Slater, Art - Elected
Straughn, Victoria - Appointed
Taylor, Tashima - Elected
Williams, Monica - Elected
Sanders, Velma
Stanford, Elizabeth
23 Mar 2009 at 11:14 am | #
“I guess you believe that sexual orientation is a choice…people are born with traits pertaining to such orientations”
So what if they are (and science is inconclusive on it).
People appear to be born with inclinations towards marital infidelity (i.e., they consider that monogamy is entirely unnatural). Some people are born with a predisposition to have sex with prepubescents. Some people are born with traits towards alcohol obsessions. People are born with traits towards violence and theft. Sometimes it is correct to exercise our will to OVERRIDE our natural impulses. That’s what human will is for, Dean.
It is likely that there are perhaps thousands of *natural human impulses* which ought not be acted upon by individuals or endorsed by society.
23 Mar 2009 at 02:39 pm | #
Yes, and anti-gay bigotry is one of them.
23 Mar 2009 at 02:43 pm | #
Samuel Reed,
Are you really comparing homosexual sex to child-molestation. The difference, since you seem so unable to comprehend simple differences, is that gay sex affects no one but the individuals involved.It is not harmful to anyone. Those involved enjoy it and are not harmed. It is no business of yours nor society to dictate what consenting adults may or may not do in the privacy of their own home.
In the future I suggest thinking out your position before you speak.
23 Mar 2009 at 04:55 pm | #
Michael,
Who said anything about molestation? I’m comparing same sex to child sexuality. To quote you: It is no business of yours nor society to dictate what consenting humans may or may not do in the privacy of their own home.
Perhaps you harbor some bigotry of your own?
23 Mar 2009 at 06:53 pm | #
From The Whistleblower, 3/24/09: http://thecincinnatusstandard.com/Whistleblower_Newswire_Tuesday_March_24_2009.mht
After BuckWheat Blackwell and Beloved Whistleblower Publisher Charles Foster Kane earned this year’s Ebony and Ivory Racial Healing Award for all their good works, I went out and bought NAALCP President SMLP Smithermouth on sale so I can enter next year’s contest. - Chris Finney
Now that they’ve exchanged rings (the NAACP pact), will The Two Chrises’ daring friendship last that long?
That would seem to depend on whether the gay community and their supporters (like the Beacon, right?) are willing to give Smitherman a pass for hiring Finney.
Choose one from the following list: indignation or accomodation. Can’t have both on this one, folks.
Oops sorry, I forgot the other option that’s always available: avoidance.
23 Mar 2009 at 08:10 pm | #
People with inclinations towards infidelity are allowed to get married. They can also eat where they wish, and acquire housing where they wish. Also, people who commit adultery often have a victim (the person on whom they cheated). Homosexuality does not create a victim.
This is a crime that has a victim—a helpless and innocent victim. What bearing has it on this conversation?
And in addition to being allowed to buy alcohol anyway, they are not denied housing, or the right to eat in a restaurant. They can also get married. Do you have a point?
These are crimes with victims. Additionally, those found guilty of such crimes can eat where they want, and live where they want.
You have no logical point.
23 Mar 2009 at 08:12 pm | #
Anon #23:
You are simple minded to think those the only three options.
23 Mar 2009 at 10:37 pm | #
Dean: You are simple minded to think those the only three options.
Perhaps you’re right. Another option is name-calling. On the other hand, that option could also be filed under “accomodation” or “avoidance.” If that’s the case, we’re still at the three I mentioned.
23 Mar 2009 at 11:43 pm | #
Dean,
I’m sure you are a nice guy and can comply with a simple request. Please stop comparing being Black to being Gay. It is offensive and condescending. Why dont White liberals ever compare being Native American, being Jewish, or being a female to being Gay? Why is it that only Black people (who mainly through religious beliefs)are always having it thrown in their faces? Being Black is not comparable to being Gay, so again I ask you to stop because all you are doing is showing just how ignorant you are about Black people despite being married to one.
24 Mar 2009 at 12:01 am | #
Dean: You have no logical point.
SR: The argument was put forth that gay is okay “because it’s an inclination you’re born with.” I showed that if we assume that to be true (and science has not proven this), we must also by logical necessity conclude that sexual libertinism, pedophilia, theft, violence, and alcoholism are also okay because these, too, are inclinations you’re born with.
24 Mar 2009 at 06:07 am | #
I showed that, even if what you claim is true, it is still different because there is no victim. So, your argument about “rising above natural inclinations” rings hollow.
No, it is not.
24 Mar 2009 at 06:16 am | #
Or, things could be complicated. For example, the NAACP is currently the only effective game in town for citizens working to change the face of government, and their work has consistently come with partnership with COAST.
Sorry. It’s just a fact. There’s no other game in town. There’s no other gig challenging the corporate status quo at City Hall.
Now, there are positions Finney has that I hate. There are other positions he has that are spot on. That’s why, in the main article, I tried to differentiate between issue-based collaboration and more permanent seeming arrangements. I share some (note *some*) of your concern. But you seem hellbent on throwing away all benefits that have come from their collaboration due to some personality-issue you have with one or both of the front figures.
As the profile of these guys increases through their collaboration, I think they need to be careful—especially since the work of so many rests on them. I think they need to be more cognizant of how certain aspects of their relationship come across, the message that sends, and they need to consider how that affects the goals of the citizens affiliated with their groups.
But as I said, they are the only game in town. They are the only citizen group changing the face of government. And there is not a single ballot initiative they have mounted with which I disagree.
This past week, I posted two critical articles on them. Two articles, about two non-elected guys with no real power other than what they gain through citizen initiatives. So stop acting like I do nothing but cheerlead. This very article disproves that. And stop acting like things are so simple that we must adopt a George W. Bush attitude that says we’re either one thing, or the other—with maybe a third sarcastic option thrown in for good measure.
This may be a joke, or a pet project for you—but for all the people on the ground working hard to collect signatures, and to get issues on the ballot, and all the people who then volunteer for the campaigns, and so forth—towards all those people your oversimplifications are offensive, misdirected.
24 Mar 2009 at 08:26 am | #
Apparently, only the Dean knows what is condescending…..
24 Mar 2009 at 08:31 am | #
And there is not a single ballot initiative they have mounted with which I disagree.
So you are for the recall provision even though (as someone at the Cinti Blog pointed out) it appears it is already part of the Ohio Revised Code?
24 Mar 2009 at 10:12 am | #
Dean, I compare your quick service in comment 3 above - writing to Commissioner Pepper to request information to a good question - to your unwillingness to write to Chris Smitherman and the NAACP. Such a letter would ask for a statement on why they hired one of the chief architects of Ohio anti-gay civil rights, contradicting Smitherman’s October 24, 2004 letter to the Enquirer (copied in comment 16 above).
To paraphrase Orwell, apparently some “media activism” is more active than others.
24 Mar 2009 at 11:31 am | #
Dean: I showed that, even if what you claim is true, it is still different because there is no victim.
SR: Then you agree with me that gay is not acceptable merely “because* it’s an inclination of the body. You say it’s acceptable instead because it has no “victims.” Really, no victims? We could easily mention the grave deadly public health threat that gay sex produces in mass populations. People who receive deadly STDs from sex are definitely “victims.”
And I agree with whoever said that your comparing gays to race is entirely offensive, condescending, and RACIST. Race consists of the physical traits that others see you wearing at all times—it’s something you have 24/7. In contrast, gayness is a mere invisible inward preference for how you like your genitals stroked in bed. Your comparison between gayness and Black Civil Rights is like comparing cars and books. Very offensive indeed. Get an education.
24 Mar 2009 at 01:29 pm | #
Please stop generalizing white liberals. It is offensive and condescending. Bigotry is bigotry and “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere”.
The same can be said for straight people having unprotected sex.
Gay people are born gay and often it is easy to tell if people are gay or not. There are many hate crimes perpetrated against gay people just as there are hate crimes against minorities. Discrimination is discrimination.
Bearman, the ballot initiative hasn’t gone before the membership and there’s no guarantee that they will support it.
24 Mar 2009 at 02:48 pm | #
Bearman said - “So you are for the recall provision even though (as someone at the Cinti Blog pointed out) it appears it is already part of the Ohio Revised Code?”
I could be wrong, but Cincinnati has a Charter form of gevernment, and therefore that particular section of the ORC may not apply. Anyone care to clarify?
24 Mar 2009 at 03:38 pm | #
Dean,
I was under the impression that the NAACP was a civil rights organization, not just a black rights one which is what Smitherman seems to be indicating in that statement you quoted following his defeat.
Also, i don’t understand why the gay community should support the black community in order to gain assistance on matters that are as important as civil rights.
It does not meet my expectations that there needs to be a quid pro quo arrangement. Is this how the NAACP in Cincinnati operates?
24 Mar 2009 at 03:46 pm | #
your name here,
The letter to Pepper could begin a series of events that changes a public policy. Or it can shed light on how a policy might be changed.
What public policy changes if I ask that of Smitherman? People like you are NEVER satisfied. First, someone like you would want to know why I don’t post criticisms of someone like Smitherman. Then, when I do, you find a new thing to poke. It does not end, unless I do everything you say, when you say it, on your time frame.
Maybe I didn’t write Smitherman a note on this because I did not think of it. I already had his position on Finney via a press release. Did you consider that? Of course not, because you have already made up your mind on this issue, and you have an agenda not of pursuing what is right, or good, or useful, but instead an agenda of just tearing me down.
I’m not against the idea of an inquiry, but I will not chase down every demand for an inquiry from the peanut gallery.
24 Mar 2009 at 03:48 pm | #
It is true that sexual orientation is not visually obvious in the manner of race, but withholding rights from people, or discriminating against them, is wrong. Gays are targeted by hate crimes, employment discrimination, housing discrimination. These are civil rights. That constitutes the comparison to Blacks. Get an education.
24 Mar 2009 at 03:49 pm | #
Bearman wrote:
As Justin already wrote, this is not an official campaign at this point. I am familiar with the ORC reference, and am curious how this will pan out in the upcoming weeks.
24 Mar 2009 at 04:14 pm | #
NtotheC, the Dean wasn’t speaking for the NAACP. Why would you act like he was? He was making a suggestion that both groups could benefit from supporting each others causes more actively. It seems obvious enough to me. They are both working for civil rights, but they are both focused on issues facing different parts of the community.
24 Mar 2009 at 04:21 pm | #
Justin,
I know the dean doesn’t speak for the NAACP but he seems to be suggesting that if gays in this town want equal treatment they need to play nice and work for other people. It also seems like Mr. Smitherman is suggesting that the NAACP is only about black people not civil rights as a whole. I put these two suggestions together and it seems to me that if gays want support from the NAACP they’d better get to work.
This is what i’d call a quid pro quo. Perhaps the Dean didn’t mean that and he’d care to further elaborate.
24 Mar 2009 at 04:47 pm | #
I don’t think he was saying anything like that at all. I think he was saying they would benefit from collaboration with other civil rights groups instead of being focused on gay issues only. He also is suggesting that the NAACP endorse any upcoming issues from the gay community and that they try to be more supportive of each other and work together more in the future. I don’t see the suggestion as being very radical and I don’t see how you arrived at the idea that the NAACP is asking for a quid pro quo. He’s not speaking for the NAACP, he’s making a suggestion to both groups.
24 Mar 2009 at 05:28 pm | #
Justin is correct.
24 Mar 2009 at 07:03 pm | #
Dean and Justin,
I sense that I’m making progress with you here, thank goodness!
Historically, White women have benefitted exponentially through civil rights/affirmative action/minority status legislation. Far beyond that of any other “minority” group in America. Do you agree with the statement that based on the economic and social gains as a direct result of the civil rights era (which paved the way for the women’s rights movement) White women, regardless of their sexual orientation, need to lead the fight for civil rights of others in this country?
24 Mar 2009 at 07:50 pm | #
I am interested in the role of women politically, and at one time I had a college woman interested in working on an article—but it never came through.
I am interested in how the role of women as political activists, by virtue of organizations like NOW, split women along social issues like abortion, and I wonder, sometimes, at what that means. Read more here.
25 Mar 2009 at 12:57 am | #
Justice: Why dont White liberals ever compare being Native American, being Jewish, or being a female to being Gay?
SR: Why don’t they? Because they know it makes no sense and because they know it offends Native Americans, Jews, Blacks and Females. All of those groups find it condescending to have their struggle compared to how one likes to have sex.
Justin: The same can be said for straight people having unprotected sex
SR: Exactly. Gays and other sexual libertines are a major health threat.
Justin: There are many hate crimes perpetrated against gay people just as there are hate crimes against minorities.
SR: There are few to zero crimes committed against gays. In the few rare cases where they are committed, the people get fines and prison. So, there’s justice for gays in America. (Have you heard what they do to gays in the Middle East and Russia?)
Dean: It is true that sexual orientation is not visually obvious in the manner of race, but withholding rights from people, or discriminating against them, is wrong.
SR: No one is withholding rights from them. But if by “rights” you mean marriage, two men have as much right to marry in the USA as do a mother and daughter.
25 Mar 2009 at 02:07 pm | #
There is a lack of unity in the feminist movement as a whole. At varying times in history—usually when progress is being made—you will note that the movement is very cohesive, but always shortly after, there is an internal split that happens for various reasons—creating different “waves” of feminism.
Each “wave” embodies what is popular within the movement, or what is “main stream” but there is always a lot more woven within the fabric of the movement than one can see at any given time.
There are different branches of feminism. Most (all) of us agree that race, class, and gender are interconnective—but usually it is difficult to focus on these issues collectively, so by nature, one usually tends to gravitate towards one of these areas. Even those who specialize in analyzing the double burden of race and gender still split when it comes to the differences between one ethnicity and another.
When you throw social issues such as abortion and pornography, for example, that are also “moral issues” into the mix, religion comes into play as well.
Whenever religion comes into play, things start getting messy—and all logic gets thrown to the wind…
In re: to
Ummmm—last week: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20090319/NEWS0107/303190038/
25 Mar 2009 at 02:43 pm | #
I know of at least one gay person that was attacked a few months ago and it didn’t make the news.
25 Mar 2009 at 03:04 pm | #
I think we all have a responsibility to speak out against injustice and to try to move our society forward. I don’t think it is helpful to assign specific groups with the responsibility of leading specific efforts. We should focus on what we can do as individuals and those we have the ability to influence and inspire. We need leaders from every group working together.
25 Mar 2009 at 03:13 pm | #
Consider reading: “Deep in Our Hearts: Nine White Women in the Freedom Movement.” Published in 2000 by the University of Georgia Press if you are interested in this topic.
25 Mar 2009 at 04:38 pm | #
I agree with this statement:
but in the Dean’s article he seems to be laying blame with the gay community for not being all over the Roger Owensby case and laying no fault with Mr. Smitherman for his actions. The Dean rather politely suggests that Mr. Smitherman is making an odd choice that may have some ramifications.
Maybe the gay community should look at how it is participating in the progressive community as a whole, but maybe all the groups that wish to see a more progressive city should as well.
Also, maybe Mr. Smitherman should address the homophobia in the black community while the gay community addresses its racism.
25 Mar 2009 at 06:30 pm | #
Kevin Osborne and CityBeat nailed the story today - twice.
Smitherman and Finney in Bed - Not that there’s anything wrong with that…” http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-17449-smitherman-and-finney-in-bed.html
More on the Finney Connection
http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-562-more-on-the-finney-connection.html
26 Mar 2009 at 02:41 pm | #
JJ “I know of at least one gay person that was attacked a few months ago and it didn’t make the news.”
SR: There are many more conservatives and christians that are attacked, harassed, assaulted, and bullied in the U.S.. Many more. Yet I don’t see you standing up for them. (So, we’re getting the usual liberal hypocrisy here.)
A gay person gets a name called at him, and you demand “justice!” But a christian or a republican gets death threats, mockery, and attacked, and you do nothing and say nothing. What kind of justice is that? It’s called SELECTIVE justice, which is no justice.
26 Mar 2009 at 04:11 pm | #
Christians and conservatives are not really minority groups and I doubt either of these groups is harassed as much as gays are.
I’d like to see an example where a christian was violently and physically attacked for doing something christian-like or for choosing to live a christian lifestyle.
Generally when christians and conservatives are harassed, it is because they take their beliefs too far and infringe upon the rights of non-christians / conservatives—you know, blowing up abortion clinics and that type of thing. Not simply for walking down the street, minding their own business, being christian and / or conservative.
26 Mar 2009 at 10:33 pm | #
Samual Reed, since when are conservatives and Christians being attacked, assaulted and bullied in the US for simply being conservatives or Christians? I’ve never heard of that and I know a lot of conservatives and Christians.
I call it nonsense. Is there any evidence of this or is there some kind of left wing conspiracy from the imaginary liberal media? Get real Sam, I’m calling BS on this one.
30 Mar 2009 at 09:25 pm | #
“So Smitherman has a long relationship with Cincinnati’s gay community.”
Um, no he doesn’t. Smitherman had no relationship with anyone’s community, including his own neighborhood association, until he first announced his candidacy for city council. Then he became everybody’s friend. Until he got fired. Now he disdains The Racist White Gays while emulating The Well Organized Jews. What a joke.
“Maybe the gay community should look at how it is participating in the progressive community as a whole.”
Maybe it is. Ever listen to Alternating Currents Saturdays from 3-5 on WAIF 88.3? It’s a lot more rational than “Smitherman on the Mic” Whooo!
There’s the community center, the Coalition, and lots of other organizations getting work done without issuing illiterate press releases and failing eighth grade math problems.
Well, anyway, I find this all hilarious. Chris Finney is a throwback, but it’s not the first time Smitherman apparently couldn’t find credible and competent (Black) legal counsel. Smitherman’s amusing hypocrisy trumps Finney’s merely nagging homophobia.
Aside: is Cincysuz banned? I miss her.