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Wednesday, June 18, 2008
The Nader Challenge!
Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
Disclaimer: Justin Jeffre is a paid member of the Ralph Nader campaign. The Dean may also end up being paid by the campaign, but he has not received a check yet. Nevertheless, lookout for this concept to go viral on YouTube!
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19 Jun 2008 at 07:40 am | #
Looks like you shot this video on Fountain Square. I’m I the only one that sees the irony in this?
19 Jun 2008 at 09:57 am | #
Yup looks like Fountain square. in 1:15 seconds I counted a TOTAL of 23 people that walked in camera range. I didn’t count the Big sunglasses lady twice, as it was obvious it was the same people. I counted 3 cars go by, so whoever your pedestrian taffic counters are, its not right to count the same person 262 times.
I saw a construction truck and my PTSD kicked in. Where are my records BTW, done typing them yet?
The Irony is, that there was already a Fountain Square there. You could actually see the Fountain from the road.
I almost forgot. Do you have any more hokey deals for 5/3 bank? I was just wondering since I shorted the Stock again last week. Now I can go see a real water wall in style. Now if you guys had any more hokey deals, I would suggest you short the stock too. Then you can pay off those loans/ grants/gifts/ or whatever they are early.
I have ordered a subscription to the NY Times to be sent to you. My treat . Don’t want you to miss anything.
I am proud of you, not one Blah blah blah.
While we are here, lets talk about the water wall. Is that really a water wall? Every one I have ever seen, actually has a wall of water going over the side. Not 3 little holes with a stream such as a drinking fountain coming out.
19 Jun 2008 at 04:45 pm | #
What ever happened to Nader anyway? Haven’t heard a peep out of him in over 6 months. He’s a non-candidate this time around (even more so than in the past), not even the Greens are endorsing him, nor are the Libertarians. Barr is actually endorsed by the Libs, and he’s going to get a lot of pissed of right wingers votes this year, because they are not voting for McSame. Interesting note, Mcsame has not received more than 75% if the vote in any of the republican primaries-even though he’s the only candidate left!
Get ready to say hello to President Obama!
19 Jun 2008 at 06:02 pm | #
He was on Democracy Now yesterday talking about ”Barack Obama is a corporate candidate A to Z” and promoting Votepact.
Politico wrote about him last week saying he’s pulled the corporate Democrats to the left. He has big videos on youtube some got him on sports shows etc and he’s being shut out by the corporate media.
(Do you think corporate America wants him telling Americans to end corporate control, corporate welfare and make an aggresive crack down on corporate crime, fraud and abuse?)
Do you think “liberal” media outlets that sold us the war want to cover an anti-war candidate? And no Obomba isn’t anti-war!
Despite the corporate media black out he’s polling at 6% or more. And he’s jumping the ballot access barriers set up by the two-party corporate dictatorship. Pretty impressive actually. Thanks for asking!
19 Jun 2008 at 06:25 pm | #
is he even on the ballot in ohio yet? if he isnt then he isnt even a candidate. If you want to have some real fun go to a nader rally and ask people for the definition of a single payer health care system.
19 Jun 2008 at 06:27 pm | #
Actually we shot scenes at different locations as well like the scene in front of Skyline. We just chose the one’s on our public square which is now corporate controlled territory. What a perfect place to shoot the Nader challenge.
Remember 3CDC doesn’t own our public square they just like to pretend they do, it was a public space before their occupation, it remains so now and will be long after they have been excersized from it. I won’t stop going to our square just because 3CDC screwed it up.
19 Jun 2008 at 07:14 pm | #
Nader’s not on the ballot in Ohio yet, but will be even though the undemocratic Corporate Democrats will spend a lot of time and money trying to knock him off of the ballot and silence his anti-war voice. Signatures are being collected as I write these words.
You would think the Corporate Democrats would worry less about small independent candidates and focus more on preventing another stolen election. Will they allow 3 in a row? Anonymous trolls and corporate parties won’t get to decide who’s a candidate and who isn’t, that will be up to the people.
If you go to http://www.votenader.org you can read about single-payer health care which is what they have in every other industrialized nation on the planet. (Of course those are real democracies with multiple parties, real debates and legitimate elections.)
Americans are stuck with a two-party corporate dictatorship, fraudulent and scripted charades we pretend are debates as well as stolen elections (when the two corporate parties even bother to challenge each other). That is until we emancipate ourselves from mental slavery and the corporate-party prison.
If you go to a Corporate Democrat rally most haven’t heard of single-payer health care because their corporate candidates like Clinton and Obama take more health industry payola than even the Republicans do. As our videos will show many Democrats are unclear about where their candidate stands on the war and single-payer health care.
Btw, anon, please name the rally where you allegedly asked Nader supporters about single-payer health care. Where and when was it?
By all means, keep going. I can see we’re going to have some fun now!
A vote for Obama is a vote for pay or die health care and a vote for war. A vote for Nader is a vote for peace and single-payer health care.
19 Jun 2008 at 07:30 pm | #
Obama: NAFTA not so bad now that I’m the Democratic nominee.
19 Jun 2008 at 09:08 pm | #
let me know when he is a candidate. then we can talk about his impact.
Last go around he was thrown off the ballot because he didn’t come up with the signatures. plain and simple. it had nothing to do with corporate democrats or republicans but rather his own failure.
Please list for me 10 contries with a single payer system.
19 Jun 2008 at 09:22 pm | #
Fantastic idea--both the video and location choice!
it may have actually inspired me to volunteer some time to petitioning.
20 Jun 2008 at 08:04 am | #
You like the word “disingenuous” and it certainly applies to your little student man-on-the-street video. Nader and Obama’s positions are hardly different on the two issues you showcase but you depend on people’s ignorance--that they haven’t actually read the positions. Knowing that he has no chance at the presidency it seems like Ralph would be a little more bold. But no, he doesn’t call for immediate withdrawal from Iraq (just a “target"), nor does he call for free, national healthcare for everyone similar to the plans that work well in Europe. His positions hardly differ from Obama’s. Obviously Ralph’s days as the radical outsider are far behind him. So he offers nothing new anymore and he has less of a following than ever and so no chance of making any political impact except in the consumer arena. Why bother?
Nader’s Statement: A target of withdrawing troops in six months will be set.
Obama’s Statement: Begin to immediately remove our troops from Iraq and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq.
Nader/Gonzalez support a single payer system that would save the $350 billion and apply those savings to comprehensively cover everyone without paying more than we already do.
Obama: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features: Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
20 Jun 2008 at 12:31 pm | #
Nader is not backed by any party, and it is very unlikely that he will make it on the ballot in any state this year. He has no organization behind him, and his major donors-the Republicans-won’t be financing his campaign this year. In fact, most of the Bush Rangers (many of whom donated to Nader in order to help him slip the Dem vote) have even closed their checkbooks to McCain, who is going to be outspent by 3 or 4 to 1 this year. Bob Barr is going to get syphon off as much as 10% of the Republican votes, especially the Ron Paul supporters.
The shoe is very much on the other foot this year.
20 Jun 2008 at 04:20 pm | #
Think 52, John Nichol’s from the Nation magazine says Nader’s running a serious campaign because he’s talking about serious issues. Nader’s polling at 6% to 9% depending on which poll you look at despite being shut out by the corporate media. As he picks up more states he will get more attention and he will definately be a factor.
Yes, the undemocratic Corporate Democrats did challenge Nader’s signatures. One of their top petition circulators signatures were thrown out because she registered over 15 years before and her signature had changed a little. Imagine that, somebody’s signature changed a little after a decade or more. Mine changes a little every time I sign something. There will be a book coming out about this soon.
Canada, Great Britain, Spain, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, and most of Scandinavia have single-payer systems. The US has a single-payer system with the VA that’s similar to the UK and Cuba’s system while Medicare is more like the Canadian system. I was in a hurry and actually meant to say not-for-profit health care instead of single-payer because countries like Japan, Germany and Switzerland have multi-payer systems but government controls keep cost down to a minimum like a single-payer system does. There systems are better than ours.
The US pay or die system is overrated and inefficient. We pay more and get less. According to David Walker, the head of the GAO;
Canada spends 11% of their GDP on health care while we spend 16%. They cover every citizen cradle to grave an we allow 18,000 people to die every year from a lack of health insurance. Only in America do we allow people to suffer and die because they don’t have money.
20 Jun 2008 at 05:13 pm | #
cincysuz, Obama’s positions are very different from Nader’s. Here you can watch Obomba say he will keep all the private contractors in Iraq which means Blackwater mercenaries and Halliburton.
According to the Nation’s Jeremy Scahill; Representative Jan Schakowsky and Senator Bernie Sanders have put forward legislation called the Stop Outsourcing Security Act in the Congress, and Barack Obama has said he’s not going to come onboard and support that legislation. There’s an army a private army of about 100,000 over there now.
Obama says he’ll pull the combat troops, but he’s still going to keep a force there in the Green zone. Obama won’t say how big of a force, but one of his top advisors says they should keep 60,000 to 80,000 troops in Iraq.
Nader is calling for a full military and corporate withdrawal from Iraq.
Obama says he’ll increase the bloated military budget. Nader says he’ll reduce the Pentagon budget and he will reverse US Middle East policy.
Nader will repeal that Taft-Hartley anti-labor law and NAFTA. Obama is OK with both of them.
Nader will say no to nuclear power. Obama says yes to nuclear power.
Nader will impose a Wall Street speculation tax and a carbon tax and Obama won’t. Nader will work to end corporate personhood. He will launch an aggressive crack down on corporate crime and end corporate welfare.
Nader will end the ballot access barriers and open up the Presidential debates.
Nader supports the Canadian style single health care plan that is free cradle to grave to all citizens. Obama’s plan includes for profit health insurance companies, HMO’s and will not be free or efficient.
Even Clinton’s plan was better than Obama’s and on January 3rd here’s what Michael Moore asked him rhetorically. “Tell me why you are now the second largest recipient of health industry payola after Hillary. You now take more money from the people committed to stopping universal health care than any of the Republican candidates.”
20 Jun 2008 at 05:31 pm | #
Amelia Earhart, where have you been my darling?
Nader is already on the ballot in New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Hawaii and there are people collecting signatures all over the country (including Ohio) as I write these words here. As a matter of fact, Nader will likely be on the ballot in ten more states by the end of this month.
The corporate duoploy have created the highest ballot access barriers of any western democracy. You can’t even start collecting signatures until August in some states.
Keep on spewing misinformation if you want, but the fact is that Kerry took more Republican money than Nader ever has and Obama is taking more money from the Republicans than McCain this year. It’s amusing that you only see a problem with Nader taking Republican money even though he had taken very little while corporate Democrats like Kerry not only raised as much as Bush, but now Obama getting more from Republicans and big business.
Nader has gotten Republican votes too (25% in Florida 2000)because he believes in civil liberties and the constitution. Kerry and Obama both voted for the constitution shredding Patriot Act. There are many Republicans that don’t like the bipartisan war and imperial foreign policy of the major parties as Ron Paul demonstrated so well.
Bob Barr will be a strong candidate for the Libertarians and we welcome more voices and choices. Some of us actually believe in democracy and real choices. I wonder if the corporate Democrats will make sure our votes are counted this time or will they spend all of their time harassing indepedents again.
20 Jun 2008 at 06:26 pm | #
That’s right. Talk up anti-affirmative action guy Ron Paul and militia supporter Bob Barr. If those are the choices you’ve come up with you might as well drag David Duke back out too and make the picture complete. It just shows how the so-called independents have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get a candidate. The worst of the worst and then try and pretend they have some redeeming qualities. Bob Barr? Bob Barr who authored the Defense of Marriage Act, who fought against the the use of medical marijuana, who supported the war on drugs, who voted for the Patriot Act, who fought against freedom of religion for those in the military, and of course his role in the impeachment hearings. The Bob Barr who’s used every conceivable power of the government to further his conservative agenda? A Libertarian? Shows you just what fools these people that call themselves Libertarians really are. Are you serious? You drag out any piece of shit from under a rock and prop him up as a candidate and as long as he doesn’t have a “D” behind his name he’s a-okay with you. I can see standing by Nader but you look ridiculous tauting the others. It just shows what you’ve already admitted. You’re anti-Democrat. You run an anti-Democrat blog. And you’re really pro-Republican.
20 Jun 2008 at 07:43 pm | #
Almost every country you listed has a parallel private insurance program and thus by definition are not single payer systems. In single payer health care there is one payer for everything while universal health care means that all people are covered. Most of the countries you listed have universal coverage but NOT single payer systems.
That was my point about Nader people not knowing the definition of single payer health care. There is a difference between universal health care and single payer universal health care.
Even the famed canadian system is moving away from single payer now. almost 1 private clinic a week is opening up.
20 Jun 2008 at 07:57 pm | #
cincysuz,I’m not supporting them, I’m supporting their right to run and voters to have some choices and some real debates. At least their against the war and that is more that I can say for the Republicrats.
21 Jun 2008 at 06:16 am | #
librariangrrl loves irony:
The gentlemen that took the Nader challenge is actually a graduate of the school where the Dean teaches, but the Dean probably did not know it at the time because he graduated before the Dean arrived there.
21 Jun 2008 at 11:15 am | #
Even if Nader took the leap and said he was for national healthcare for everyone, not single payer, and he was for immediate withdrawal from Iraq, not a timetable like everybody else, it wouldn’t mean anything. His chance of becoming president is about as good as mine which is zilch. So what does it matter what he believes, what he calls for, what he wants to do, what he stands for? If he really wanted to work for change he would be organizing people to put pressure on the candidate that will be president and will have power. He won’t do that. Obviously he wants to make a statement, not an impact.
21 Jun 2008 at 01:50 pm | #
cincysuz, single-payer health care is a not-for-profit national health plan that will give everybody free health care craddle to grave just like in Canada. Canada’s system is very good despite what people say, though it is a little underfunded. There is no room for profit when it comes to health care. For profit health care system deny people their basic needs. Obama’s plan keeps for profit insurance companies and allows them to make a killing by saying pay or die.
Nader is for a full military and corporate withdrawal and reducing the bloated and wasteful Pentagon budget. Obama will keep troops in Iraq and a large private mercenary army in Iraq and he will increase the bloated Pentagon budget. Those are clear differences and there are many more. Nader is putting important issues back on the table that are have been completely ignored and taken off of the table by Obama and the corporate Democrats.
Nader will be on the ballot in about 45 states and is already polling at 6 to 9% without any media coverage to speak of. Nader will pull Obama to the left while McCain and the corporations are constantly pulling him to the right.
A recent Politico article exagerates Nader’s success in the past when it comes to pulling Gore and the corporate Democrats to the left, but power is only responsive when it is insecure and power concedes nothing without a demand. You demand nothing and get taken everytime. Has voting for Democrats ended any wars?
Nader is the best candidate and they must shut him out of the debates and brain wash people into voting the lesser evil to keep him and the will of the American people down. If the Corporate Democrats and Republicans weren’t allowed to control the fraudulent presidential debates and Nader was able to represent the American people on these issues his poll numbers would soar and he would landslide the corporate candidates.
The majority of Americans support these issues and are denied the opportunity to hear from a candidate that represents them on these issues by the corporate media and the corporate parties. The most important part of the electoral process is to have a deep discussion about the direction of our country and Nader has been ranked by both Time and Life magazine as one of the 100 most influential men of the past century.
Instead of fighting for democracy, for health care for all Americans and to end the war, you are a cheer leader for the status quo and the denial of a great American’s right to free speech.
21 Jun 2008 at 05:44 pm | #
I just asked a nader supporter (you) what countries had single payer health care and you didn’t know what countries have it. In fact you listed a bunch of countries that werent single payer and tried to pass them off as single payer for your benifit. Were you lying or uninformed.
I would think you would consider yourself an informed nader voter but if you don’t understand what single-payer is how do you expect other people who support nader (and arent on his campaign payroll) to?
Like you said we are going to have some fun now
21 Jun 2008 at 06:13 pm | #
I’m not trying to deny Nader’s free speech. And that’s all it is. Conversation. For all the impact he’s having he might as well be sitting around his living room talking to friends. He’s already done the presidential thing and failed miserably each time. He’s having no impact whatsoever. If he acted as smart as we know he is, he would be directing the people that respect him toward some real political action instead of choosing to stay marginalized and therefore ineffective. It really makes you wonder about Ralph.
21 Jun 2008 at 07:03 pm | #
now22, we could argue about which country fits this model best or if this is the best definition, but that really misses the point (which is really your intent). The bottom line is that not-for-profit health care (Nader’s plan) is better than a pay or die health care (Obama’s plan). Single-payer health care is more fair, more efficient and cheaper.
Wiki’s definition:
You can try to change the subject (typical), but the bottom line is that Nader’s single-payer health care plan is the best solution for our country. (Funny how you won’t provide any info about an alleged rally you supposedly attended.)
Please explain how Obama’s for-profit plan is better than Nader’s not for profit plan.
21 Jun 2008 at 07:49 pm | #
cinysuz, what political action could bring more attention to important issues than running for President. If you have some really great ideas I will gladly pass them along.
I don’t think you used the same standard for Edwards or Kucinch, did you? Or was that the old cincysuz or the new cinysuz?
Sadly, the Democrat win elections and allow them to be stolen. (Talk about miserable failures.)
Have you seen the old Obama vs. the new Obama?
23 Jun 2008 at 11:52 pm | #
CincySuz.... hmmm that was actually Hillary’s plan you are citing.
“Obama: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features: Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.”
His was a tax credit, letting us buy from the open market, and if the 35 under crowd wou’dnt buy it, he was going to allow ( make ) the parents pay for it up to 25. It still left a whole of about 9-11 million that won’t get coverage
Congress , and federal employee’s have a choice of approx 200 plus plans. That is not his idea, or proposal, it was HRC’s.
His has probably cahnged by now anyway.
25 Jun 2008 at 01:31 pm | #
now22, can’t you tell us how Obama’s for profit plan is better for our country than Nader’s not-for-profit single payer plan? Oh yeah, it’s not!
cincysuz, you ran away from my question too.
25 Jun 2008 at 02:48 pm | #
I’m not going to respond to all your ravings. You say the same thing over and over and never answer anything. You’re talking to yourself. What I will say is that Ralph sounds like a pure asshole saying Obama is talking “white” and calling Obama “half black.” Now this is a white man, get this, saying a black man is acting like him. What pure unadulterated arrogance. I guess that Ralph, in his all white world, Ralph who’s never been concerned about race, is the guy that now gets to determine who acts black. Ralph is the one acting white, which is exactly what he is. Ralph has lost his mind. He brings race in just like all the other Republicans, trying to hold Obama to a different standard and giving the white Republicans what? A pass. Continue to follow the Republican front man. Be made the fool.
26 Jun 2008 at 12:01 am | #
What I will say is that Ralph sounds like a pure asshole saying Obama is talking “white” and calling Obama “half black.” Now this is a white man, get this, saying a black man is acting like him. What pure unadulterated arrogance. I guess that Ralph, in his all white world, Ralph who’s never been concerned about race, is the guy that now gets to determine who acts black. Ralph is the one acting white, which is exactly what he is. Ralph has lost his mind. He brings race in just like all the other Republicans, trying to hold Obama to a different standard and giving the white Republicans what? A pass. Continue to follow the Republican front man. Be made the fool.
Get ‘em CZ...GET ‘EM!
26 Jun 2008 at 11:39 am | #
cincysuz, are you talking about things like Ralph’s idea for a Congress Watch that he’s pushing on the campaign trail. Also please review our rules. I really don’t want to delete any of your comments but there’s no reason for the cursing. I understand that you don’t support the peace candidate but you’re going to have to argue like an adult.
Here’s an excerpt from Rocky Mountain news and his comments in context. Asked if there’s a difference between Obama and Gore or Kerry Nader responded.
Obama doesn’t sound like Nader, he sounds like he’s just another corporate candidate.
26 Jun 2008 at 01:31 pm | #
I take back the “bad word.” But will again point to the Beacon’s sexism in calling me out and ignoring epithets by male posters. But whatever...I can take it.
Ralph Nader has never had any interest in racism. There are dozens of articles examining that contention. Here’s one from a couple of elections ago that I think captures his lack of concern or interest in the issue of race, and nothing has changed. But now this new Ralph, has suddenly awakened and deems himself the judge of who is black, something he had no interest in until it began to look like a black man might become president. So Ralph brings out the race card! Ralph sounds like all of the racist Fox network talking heads claiming that Obama isn’t black enough or that he’s too black. Next Nader will claim he’s a terrorist and guarantee a spot on Fox nightly news.
http://www.commondreams.org/views/082100-106.htm
{Editors note: The link works fine}
26 Jun 2008 at 10:32 pm | #
cincysuz, I reject your claim that we are sexist and that you are treated unfairly. I simply requested that you watch your language and please respect our simple rules.
Here’s a few of Ralph’s accomplishments and I think people of all races benifited.
∗ Safe Drinking Water Act
∗ Clean Air Act
∗ Freedom Of Information Act
∗ Environmental Protection Agency
∗ Seat Belts/Air Bags/Tire Safety
∗ Consumer Product Safety Act
∗ Pension Protection Act
∗ Whistleblower Protection Act
∗ Safe Medical Device Act
∗ National Traffic & Motor Vehicle Safety
Act
∗ Clean Water Act
∗ Occupational Health and Safety
Administration
What the Clinton-Gore administration did.
Under-enforced the civil rights laws while orating for them. Backed large corporate prison expansions and failed to address discrimatory patterns of criminal justice enforcement. And they promoted welfare reform that ended the federal safety net and put many children at risk.
Nader talks about all the issues he criticizes Obama for failing to address. Ralph is of Lebanese decent and will reverse our foreign policy in the Middle East.
27 Jun 2008 at 09:00 pm | #
I reject your rejection of my claim that you are sexist and treat me unfairly. I stand by my claim. It is true. Do the research. It should take about a minute. Start with your attempt to humiliate me by targeting me as the subject of an editorial. Of course it backfired. But try and be honest for a change, huh?
You know and I know and everyone else knows that Ralph is not concerned about racial inequality and discrimination in America. He has said as much. To say that the work he does (or attempts to do) benefits everyone is to deny that African Americans have a specific set of challenges and obstacles in America that are unique and require solutions and approaches outside the general agenda. Do you also now deny that? Sounds like the direction you’re moving in.