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Tuesday, July 01, 2008
More from the Inbox: Obama and the Birth Certificate “Smears”
Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
Photo courtesy of here.
I have read the material on Barack Obama’s Fight the Smears campaign page. And I had pondered the circus that is American politics, wondering at the emails that would cause Obama’s campaign to make such a page in the first place. Then, I got what appeared to be one of the “smear” emails. It was sent to me and a long list of others. So, I decided to respond to the whole list, engaging the sender in a dialogue—to see what might happen. Here are the results so far…
OBAMA IS NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN!
He refuses to produce his Birth Certificate!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2037877/posts
Yes, the question about whether the candidate is a natural born American citizen is legitimate. But is Obama?
If Obama lacks a certified Hawaiian birth certificate, he’s not a natural born American. If he’s not a natural born American, he can’t be president. That’s the law of the land.
If Obama is a legitimate candidate, a natural born citizen of the United States, he must prove it. If he is not, he must admit the truth, and accept the consequences. Now, not later.
This is a matter of US national security. Because there are people in this world who know the truth and can prove it. They would be able to hold that knowledge and proof over his head to make him do their bidding, or else expose him as a fraud, liar and, yes, an illegal alien. That is not a risk that it is reasonable for the American people to take.
Beyond the vulnerability to blackmail, there is a more fundamental question that must be asked if Obama is not forthcoming in producing the requisite documentation of his citizenship: does the American people really want to elect a man who would conceal his past and identity? Does it want to elect a man who would withhold the full truth and stonewall legitimate questions in his pursuit of the presidency, all the while claiming to be a victim and accusing others of fraud?
There’s only one way for Obama to show he’s a natural born citizen eligible to be President: produce the paper proof.
Whether from popular pressure or a legal challenge to his credentials, it is essential that Obama be forced to release for objective analysis the birth certificate he claimed in own book to possess.
Each American, —to get a driver’s license, a marriage certificate, a passport—must produce a paper birth certificate for official inspection and analysis.
Now it’s Obama’s turn. PRODUCE A VALID BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
Jim Hanley
So I sent “Jim Hanley” (if that’s his real name) the following concise reply:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert
This man allegedly named “Jim” came back with the following:
Hello again You-All;
Some (un-informed) people say Obama is an American citizen
because his mother is a “natural born American.”
NOT SO!
Read this: THE LAW
“---if only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of birth, the citizen-parent “must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.” (Or total 21!)
But, his mother, who was a natural-born citizen, was only 18 when Obama was born, on August 4, 1961---” thus:
Obama fails this constitutional test because his citizen-mother had not resided in the U.S. for five years after the age of 16, i.e., not old enough, at the time of Obama’s birth, “to qualify her son for automatic U.S. citizenship.”!
However, according to Ron Gotcher, a noted California immigration lawyer and expert on presidential eligibility,
“If’ Barack Obama ‘is’ a natural-born citizen of the United States, (?)
he is therefore eligible to become President.”
SO:
THE BIG QUESTION: IS HE A “NATURAL-BORN CITIZEN”?
Or, was he born somewhere else, like Kenya?
So you see: If Obama cannot PROVE he was born in Hawaii, then,
‘HE’ IS “NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES”!
That is why, as ‘HE’ knows, PROOF of BIRTH in Hawaii, is so significant!
He’s a FRAUD!
Ciao, Jim
So I decided to spend more time on my next response:
What is wrong with you? He was born in Hawaii, and he has made his birth certificate public. If you are born in this country, you are a citizen.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert
Look, I’m not asking anyone to support the guy. But why do you invent hysterical rants?
Then, I sent this:
Jim,
Are you a citizen? Prove it. Is your name Jim? Prove it. What if you are an undercover pro-war Islamic fundamentalist who wants John McCain to win to perpetuate your war machine of terror?
Oh my God!
Next, the man allegedly named “Jim” sent this to his list:
Hello again Dean; thaks for your brief note; But:
You say: “ What if you are an undercover pro-war Islamic fundamentalist---”?
I say: I am trying to save all Americans even including people like you ‘FROM’ an
“---Islamic fundamentalist” MUSLIM"-- Barack Hussein Obama, who is a KENYAN CITIZEN,
and a MUSLIM, and ‘NOT’ an AMERICAN CITIZEN!
Neither you or I, or any other American can get ‘even’ a drivers license, or a Passport,
unless we present a ABSOLUTELY VALID BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
So, why doesn’t Barack Hussein Obama possess, and present ‘his’ ABSOLUTELY VALID BIRTH CERTIFICATE?
ANSWER: HE WAS NOT BORN IN THE USA! PERIOD!
FACTS do not change because robotic delusional idiots wish it to happen!
I HATE REPUBLICANS! They only care about their RICH friends!
And, I hate John McCane because he comes from the same bunch of sadistic greedy bastards!
BUT---The facts are:
John McCane had one, or both American parents who fit the requirements that
‘grant’ “AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP”!
And Barack Hussein Obama does not! PERIOD!
The requiremments for “AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP” are contained in my last email!
Have some LITERATE person read it to you SLOOOOWLY!
And, Barack Obama was NOT BORN IN HAWAII,
HE WAS BORN IN KENYA!
And, he forged that PHONY BIRTH CERTIFICATE with NO
“VALIDATION EMBOSSED STATE of HAWAII SEAL”! And NO CERTIFICATE NUMBER!
And, because Barack Obama is a Nominee for President of the United States
“---he must establish positively that he is an American Citizen”
in order to be President!
Yet, as of this date July 1, 2008 he has not proven this!
Barack Obama has offered an ‘invalidated’ facsimile of a supposed Birth Certificate that cannot
meet the “standard of ‘PROOF OF BIRTH’ required by Law” to be President!
The ‘paper’ (copy here below) (or, at this site: http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert)
that Barack Obama has offered, does not bear this
“OFFICIAL EMBOSSED STATE VALIDATION SEAL”!
Nor does it show the ‘normal’ “tri-fold” that results
from a “US Postal MAILING”, that is the “Official method off delivery”.
And, this ‘paper’ also does not have a CERTIFICATE NO.!
Isn’t it a FEDERAL CRIME to be in possession of this type of ALTERED DOCUMENT?
And, are you going to pursue criminal charges against Barack Obama?
Or, those responsible for this ‘FORGERY’
Anyone born in Hawaii can order and receive a VALID COPY of their Birth Certificate by mail!
THIS IS NOT A VALID COPY!
NOTE: NO “OFFICIAL EMBOSSED STATE VALIDATION SEAL”!
THIS IS A FORGERY!
I know this is getting long, but here is the conclusion—at least as of right now:
Jim, be a man and show us your birth certificate. Prove to us that you are an American citizen. Scan your birth certificate. Be sure it has folds that are visible in the scan, as well as a seal. DO IT RIGHT NOW.
Otherwise, what should prevent us from thinking that YOU want to promote the PRO WAR TERROR MACHINE by attempting to elect JOHN MCCAIN for president via a SMEAR campaign!
A true patriot, who calls into question another’s birth credentials, would have no problem making his own TOTALLY PUBLIC!
WHERE IS JIM’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE?
WHERE IS IT?
Does it exist? Are Jim’s parent’s REAL Americans?
I am eager to study “Jim’s” birth certificate.
EVENING UPDATE
From so-called “Jim”:
Hello again Dean; Try to be sensible?
Dean says: “WHERE IS JIM’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE?”
I say: (WHY ASK?) (DIVERSION!) (SMOKE!) (SPIN!) (IDIOCY?)
I am not “NOMINATED TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE FREE WORLD”!
Someone who cares about America, and the rest of the “Free World”
does not have to be an American Citizen!
Aren’t you concerned that MUSLIMS are trying, or, they may have already succeeded,
in buying our Country?
There is no doubt (it is proven) that Barack Hussein Obama was born a MUSLIM,
attended a Madrassa, and studied ‘fervently’ the Koran, (according to two schoolmates)!
Further, there is much reason to believe that his Campaign receives funds from an Iraqi Billionaire!
And now? He FORGES A BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
Doesn’t that, at least? arouse your suspicions about the guy?
Do you want a FORGER for your President?
Why must he FORGE a birth certifiicate?
The Hawaii Health Department said he, or a member of his family may have a “VALID Copy
of his Birth Certificate “containing the “EMBOSSED STATE OF HAWAII VALIDATING SEAL”
by merely requesting it! IF, HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII!
Why is he a citizen of Kenya? I say it is because he was born there!
The Dean of Cincinnati:
The man who calls himself “Jim” says: Hey, I am an expert in birth certificates and what it takes to be an American!
The Dean of Cincinnati—defender of truth and justice—says, “Hey, Jim, where’s YOUR birth certificate?
Check out THIS theory:
The man who calls himself “Jim” (a very AMERICAN name, a suitable pseudonym for a JIHADIST looking to INFILTRATE AMERICAN CONSCIOUSNESS) wants us to believe his CONSPIRACY about the citizenship of an American presidential candidate.
BUT WOULDN’T THE CITIZENSHIP OF THE VERY MAN MAKING THAT CLAIM BE TANTAMOUNT TO ESTABLISHING CREDIBILITY?
For all we know, this so-called “Jim” is a foreign operative, a hired hand of the pro-war terrorist RETHUGLICAN regime to throw suspicion and doubt into the public’s mind.
PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE!
How should we respond to such acts of war?
This so-called “Jim” says he’s a patriot, an American, concerned about our country.
THEN WHY CAN’T HE PROVE IT!
SHOW US YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE, “JIM”!!!!
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01 Jul 2008 at 04:58 pm | #
The irony is that John McCain was born in the Canal Zone, which is NOT part of the United States. There is no question about where McCain was born.
There is no legal definition of “natural born Citizen”—the question, although it has come up before, has not been settled by the U.S. Supreme Court.
For my part, I would take the fact that McCain’s parents were American citizens as sufficient to fulfill the constitutional requirement, regardless of where he was born. But some differ, and the smear may be to head off questions of McCain’s own elgibility.
01 Jul 2008 at 05:19 pm | #
So since Obama had to produce his BC to get these documents then according to Jim that should be proof enough. Obama just whip out your drivers license and tell Jim to STFU.
I am sure that even if he showed his BC with the requisite folds and embossing that it still wouldn’t be enough.
01 Jul 2008 at 05:31 pm | #
Wow. The wacko, conspiracy driven right wing extremists are showing their true colours.
01 Jul 2008 at 05:52 pm | #
Obama is patriotic. Just look at his speech where he oozes with “patriotism”.
Dr. King spoke of ”the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today—my own government.”
He said;
King spoke a harsh truth.
Keep in mind that though the US spends over half of all it’s expenditures on the military, that Obama wants to increase the bloated military budget.
It’s amazing that people like Jim repeat lies about Obama being a muslim (as if there would be anything wrong with that) or him not being a citizen, but what is even more scary is Obama’s willingness to support the Military Industrial Complex.
01 Jul 2008 at 06:59 pm | #
It’s probably hidden somewhere on Plum Street.
Justin. Dr King was an amazing man.
It is scary that even though we are in 2 wars, so far right now, they very person who is running for President, is increasingly showing his willingness to support the machine.
Remember the democrats , when they regained control, said we will have this over as soon as we get in. Then yesterday, Our madam speaker was so excited about the bill to fund the wars for a full year, saying it was a fair price to pay to get the “ GI Bill “ section passed?
02 Jul 2008 at 05:15 am | #
Updates:
After reading MEP’s comment, I sent this to “Jim”:
So-called “Jim” wrote back:
So I wrote back:
02 Jul 2008 at 05:24 am | #
Correction regarding McCain: McCain was born on a U.S. military base which, like a U.S. embassy, is considered U.S. soil. It is incorrect to say that he was not born in the U.S.
02 Jul 2008 at 07:35 am | #
Update
So-called “Jim”
The Dean
02 Jul 2008 at 08:23 am | #
The State Department calls this a common misconception. People do not acquire U.S. citizenship by being born on a U.S. military base. See section 7FAM1116.1-4, Not Included in the Meaning of “In the United States,” of the linked document.
As I said earlier, I consider McCain to be a “natural born Citizen,” although some do not. A few have tried to make it an issue. I think reliance on this phrase to determine who should be president, while ignoring the many serious issues facing us, is a waste of time.
02 Jul 2008 at 08:36 am | #
Update
So-called Jim:
02 Jul 2008 at 06:53 pm | #
Early on I suggested that maybe the smear was to head off possible criticism of McCain’s own elgibility. I take that back. That would be giving “Jim” WAAAYYYY too much credit for his thinking abilities.
The guy is a fruitcake.
03 Jul 2008 at 01:48 am | #
Senator Obama is NOT a Dirty Muslim!
“What you won’t hear from this campaign or this party is the kind of politics that uses religion as a wedge,” says Mr. Obama, while denouncing statements of him being a Muslim as a smear. Why is the presidential candidate who claims to be religiously inclusive is treating the word “Muslim” as an insult? Apparently, it is OK for Mr. Obama to be associated with terrorists like William Ayers or racists like Jeremiah Wright, but God forbid somebody would call him a Muslim! No, he won’t stand for that kind of smear! We admit that most terrorists are Muslims, but most Muslims are not terrorists and the statement on Mr. Obama’s website is insulting to hundreds of millions of people.
How could a man who discards his family heritage in favor of political expediency be even considered for presidency of the United States? Where are all the so-called “Islamic civil rights groups” like CAIR, MPAC, ISNA, MAS, etc. who are quick to defend every Islamic terrorist, but are silent when Muslims in general are being denigrated? Would Mr. Obama have the same reaction if someone claimed that he was raised as a Jew? We sincerely doubt that.
“In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” Barack Obama, “The Audacity of Hope”, page 261.
Well, the political winds did shift in an ugly direction. Is equating “Muslim” with “smear” Obama’s idea of “stand[ing] with [Muslims]?
Muslims Against Sharia demand immediate removal of “SMEAR: Barack Obama is a Muslim” statement from the official Barack Obama’s website as well as an apology for giving the word “Muslim” a negative connotation.
http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2008/06/senator-obama-is-not-dirty-muslim.html
Update:
Obama changes “SMEAR: Barack Obama is a Muslim” to “SMEAR: Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim” as well as removes his pledge not to use religion as a wedge from site’s header.
03 Jul 2008 at 07:29 am | #
I didn’t want to weigh in on this, but I feel compelled to do so.
If we wish to live by the rule of law, we need to obey the rule of law.
These questions, while not important with regards to issues, they are still important to the law.
MEP: There has been much precident on citizenship. If you like I can research and post.
Personally, I think this should be cleared up on both sides, McCain and Obama, because, in fact, it is important if we wish to live under laws.
03 Jul 2008 at 07:45 am | #
Somewhat right of center but still reputable.
This is going to bubble up.
Wonder how Senator Obama is going to handle it?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66787
03 Jul 2008 at 09:11 am | #
Personally, i think the “natural born citizen” clause is a stupid requirement for the presidency. We should confer on all citizens (natural born or naturalized) the full rights of citizenship...including the ability to become president.
MEP, you’re right, this guy is a fruitcake. A moon mission conspiracy theorist? yeah, not worth the time of day.
03 Jul 2008 at 09:31 am | #
I researched this a while back. There has been a lot of precident on citizenship; it’s the “natural born” that’s ambiguous in the context of the Constitution. Then there’s the whole question of the Fourteenth Amendment which may, because it defines citizens as “born and naturalized” and does not use the phrase “natural born,” may end up trumping the clause in Article II.
If you find a clear precident on this question, please let me know. Arnold Schwarzenegger is waiting.
The other question is, what would one do about it if there is a problem?
03 Jul 2008 at 11:21 am | #
I sodon’t want to weigh in on this one either. I agree with with Mr. Scott Ryan’s comments 13 and 14 though.
03 Jul 2008 at 11:22 am | #
MEP:
Indeed, that is the $4 trillion question.
I trust the market place of ideas. I have less trust in the electorate, but I am willing to concede to its decisions. After all, I am one of them.
What do you think would happen if the courts disqualified Senator Obama?
My fear is that it would simply accelerate the inevitable, my hope is that it would simply accelerate the inevitable.
I pray and hope for a peaceful revolution and fear a violent one.
Remember, freedom is the message, not power.
These are not ordinary times, I pray for you and those that seek peace.
03 Jul 2008 at 11:59 am | #
We should start by impeaching the war criminals in the white house.
03 Jul 2008 at 12:18 pm | #
MEP:
Regarding #16. I think you are pretty close. The other issue, also, is laws in place during the births of the two candidates, since their age difference is significant.
I pray for peace and freedom. That is the message, not power.
03 Jul 2008 at 12:31 pm | #
JJ: #19
Off topic. I agree. But irrelevant.
Freedom is the message, not power.
03 Jul 2008 at 08:39 pm | #
The law only comes into play for Obama IF he wasn’t born in Hawaii.
For McCain there is still a problem as shown by the Senate passing a resolution stating that he was a “natural born Citizen.” If there wasn’t a question, then the resolution wouldn’t have been introduced. And just one chamber passing a resolution decades after the fact doesn’t make it retroactive. Nor both chambers. It would take a U.S. Supreme Court decision.
Bottom line: if it looks like Obama may be disqualified and McCain’s elgibility doesn’t come under the same scrutiny, look out.
For my part, I take the phrase “natural born Citizen” to mean anyone who isn’t a naturalized citizen. But that’s my opinion, not a court’s.
And, I go back to the Fourteenth Amendment (see #16) and what NtotheC (#15) said. A naturalized citizen had to have actually passed a criminal background check and take a test on history and the Constitution, and maybe other requirements. That’s more than what the “natural born Citizen” candidates for president have to do.
05 Jul 2008 at 03:17 pm | #
This whole issue is ridiculous. Obama and McCain are natural-born US citizens, and anyone who is familiar with our citizenship laws knows it. Obama has a birth certificate which proves his status. McCain has no such problem either. He was born to a US military servicemember, on a US military base, just like thousands and thousands of US residents. That issue has long been settled. I’m sure there are real issues in this race people could be talking about.
05 Jul 2008 at 03:57 pm | #
CincyJeff, I agree. What is your position on the privatization of the military with corporations like Haliburton and Blackwater increasingly taking over traditional military services?
05 Jul 2008 at 04:28 pm | #
It’ll depend on how we define traditional military services. I’m not for having contractors functioning as a military unit. But if it’s commercial-type support functions, such as what Haliburton specializes in, I’m all for managed competition for functions that are commercial in nature.
05 Jul 2008 at 04:42 pm | #
As in things the military has always done in the past. Blackwater functions as a military unit. They gaurd people like Paul Bremmer etc. Haliburton has gotten many no-bid contracts. That’s not managed competition, that is managed crony capitalism where Cheney’s old company manages to get sweet heart deals. Is there really a difference between managed competition and privatization or corporatization?
05 Jul 2008 at 05:18 pm | #
MEP:
“The law only comes into play for Obama IF he wasn’t born in Hawaii.”
You are correct. What if Jim is correct despite his somewhat irrational frame of mind? What if he wasn’t born in Hawaii and it can be proven so?
While legally speaking McCain may be in a similar situation, it may be difficult to convince the public that a baby born on a military base in Panama to two natural born citizens is not a natural born citizen. Obama is a little more vulnerable on this legal issue.
This will be an issue.
Probably equally as important legally, is McCain’s situation with funding. Ultimately, I have a feeling he will be forced to accept public funding which, in all reality, will not hurt him because he will not be able to raise sufficient funds to compete with Obama, but if the courts decide this, then they also must conclude that he has violated the very law that was named after him during the primaries.
McCain is probably doomed, but I sure would like to see the Obama citizenship issue ressolved.
Having said all that, you know what they say about politics, “All things are possible”.
I can not find in myself to pray and hope against someone and I can not pray and hope for someone that I will not be voting for, so you see my predicament.
Personally, I will be voting for neither, but I would definitely prefer to see Obama as our president over McCain. I prefer people that trend towards peace over war.
But then again, I broke my independant rank and voted for Bush over Gore in an attempt to break the utter corruptness of the Clintin administration. Never again will I do that. I feel personally responsible for what we have become in eight years.