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Wednesday, February 18, 2009
Hey, Explore Cincinnati DJs! Take The Beacon Challenge!
Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
The DJs at Explore Cincinnati on Bearcast Radio say they will address some of our inquiries this week, and they also say they will respond to allegations that their show contained unprofessional conduct. OK, DJs, let’s do this. Are you ready for The Beacon Challenge?
1. I have not listened a second time to the show, but I remember distinctly that you called either me or my ideas “ridiculous.” I fail to see how such name-calling is part of what you call “professional conduct.” On the site for your show, you wrote, “...I want to mostly focus on the accusations that my show is biased and unprofessional.” Please explain how calling me and/or my ideas “ridiculous” fits with your vision of unbiased and professional conduct.
2. Chris Bortz, a major proponent of the Streetcar, stated categorically in front of OKI that this project is NOT a transit project, but an economic development project. This raises interesting questions.
Some streetcar advocates present this as a mass-transit plan, like a precursor to a future regional light rail plan. Others say it can be both a transit and development plan, while some have no problem with Bortz’s claim. Please specify your position.
According to the hosts of Explore Cincinnati, what sort of plan is this?
If this is not a transit plan, why do we need to disrupt traffic to stimulate businesses? Why not examine other methods for encouraging businesses to locate downtown?
If this is a transit plan, why not look to create more mobility for less money, which would be accomplished with closed circuit downtown tire trolleys? Isn’t the point of transit to meet as many people where they are, taking them where they need to be?
Or, do you view this plan as a precursor to a future regional light rail plan? If so, why are streetcars a necessary precursor? The actual downtown streetcar vehicles will not be the same as any regional or inter-city rail cars. If a streetcar can pull up to an exchange for boarding regional light rail, why can’t a tire trolley?
Do you subscribe to the notion that this is about getting people used to the idea of “rails.” If so, is this the most cost-effective strategy to engage public relations for rail transit? Is that kind of psychological strategy an appropriate use of tax dollars?
3. Why does Portland spend hundreds of millions of dollars to encourage downtown development in direct and indirect taxpayer subsidies, after the cost of the streetcar? If it is true that streetcars bring development, why are these development subsidies necessary? (Remember, I’m talking about subsidies to business developers, and not subsidies to the streetcar, or to its energy source.)
If you acknowledge the fact that other cities saw this business development only after additional subsidies, above and beyond the cost of the streetcar, then what dollar amount, above and beyond the projected local streetcar costs, will Cincinnati need to spend to achieve desired results?
If you do not acknowledge the fact of these additional subsidies, why don’t you?
4. In your program last week, you spoke harshly against suburban families with multiple cars, even suggesting they have contributed to the county’s financial meltdown. You spoke negatively about cars. Please specify what role cars should play in the life of an average resident of both our city and the greater metropolitan area. Should everyone rely on mass transit? Do you wish to create more congestion for cars? What responsibility does government have for those travelers who own cars?
5. Last week, you said John Schneider made his best point when discussing how people need to take a close look at their individual lifestyles, and how much energy we use in our daily lives. Can you explain what bearing a streetcar has on whether I install a geo-thermal system or use CFL bulbs to light my home? After all, you did call this his best point. I don’t know what is so great about his point, and I’m not sure how to research this connection.
6. We have indicated the fact that bio-fuels release less carbon per passenger mile than coal-generated electricity. Many have discussed the dangers of how some bio-fuels are created. What is your position on both mountain top removal, and the recent coal ash spill in Tennessee? Remember, this is how electricity is generated locally.
You have indicated that Cincinnati could buy green energy credits to offset the electricity usage for the streetcar, but that would not stop the electricity actually used by the streetcar from being generated by coal. We could run a tire trolley system and still buy green energy credits.
What does the purchase of green energy credits have to do with anything?
What would you say to a plan that bought more green energy credits for less overall money due to the dollars saved from implementing a tire trolley and not a streetcar?
7. You said that I was not as prepared as I should have been. What single thing did I say that demonstrated an overall lack of preparation? If you cannot identify such a point, do you consider it unbiased and professional to suggest I did not prepare for the debate? Even if you do have a point where you think I missed key details, do you think it unbiased and professional to suggest I did not prepare for the debate? How do you know what I may have done to prepare?
8. One of the DJs ridiculed me for telling a story about where electricity comes from to a room of educated people at a sustainability forum. Another DJ mused how the students in my story (the ones who did not know from where electricity comes) are now old enough to vote. How do you reconcile that irony?
Was your behavior in criticizing my choice of an introductory anecdote unbiased and professional?
9. Some who have criticized plans put forth by people like Charlie Winburn have called tire trolleys “just a dressed up bus.” This phrase presents “bus” as if the concept is negative. What is wrong with buses? Why will people ride steel wheels, and not rubber wheels?
If you wish to say that rails show people which way the route goes, so would a painted line. Now, you may have other disagreements about painted lines, but I’m specifically talking about what would motivate someone to get on a particular mode of transit, and not another. So let’s stay on that single topic. Please explain, in as clear terms as possible, why someone would ride a streetcar and not a tire trolley, especially if it were equally clear where the routes went, and if they were both accessible, with comparable wait times, and any other variables we may imagine. What is wrong with a “dressed up bus”?
Please answer this question directly, and do not react to other speculations I have may have voiced elsewhere. I am willing to amend prior opinions I’ve articulated if I can get a persuasive answer that makes sense.
10. The City of Cincinnati agreed not to fight Duke’s desire to impose a rate increase on City residents, and in exchange Duke gave a few million dollars to the streetcar plan. Please explain your opinion on why Duke would be interested in establishing an electric streetcar line downtown, and also explain how those interests fit with the interests of the average Cincinnati resident.
In fact, since a huge portion of metropolitan Cincinnati’s population does not live downtown, nor on any of the proposed streetcar lines, while also owning cars, please explain why such a person should care about the streetcar plan.
The petition drive will give everyone a voice in this matter. While supporting streetcars, do you also support the Democratic process engaged by this petition drive? If so, will you sign a petition? If not, why not?
Please avoid the trite argument that we should not vote on every pothole filled by the City. Issues like this can change the face of the City long term, and they have long term ongoing financial implications. Please address the issue directly.
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18 Feb 2009 at 11:02 pm | #
OK Dr. Owens-
Your students have now been called to a task! Either they will be “professional” as they say they are and answer this challenge- or prove to be yet a group of Kids playing radio!
Maybe it is time that the Dean of CCM get ahold of this if the faculty advisor doesn’t step to the plate. What he did was cause a bunch of angry alumni to jump on a bandwagon over which group was more professional.
All I know is- this would have been fun when we were in school- but then again- we never acted like a bunch of spoiled Rush Limbaughs and got called on the carpet for this type of behavior in a public place!
Good Call Deano!
19 Feb 2009 at 10:26 am | #
1) If they thought your ideas were ridiculous, not saying so would have been, well….., ridiculous and unprofessional.
2) The Streetcar can be different things to different people. Because it’s multi-faceted, it doesn’t need to be perfect in all of it’s separate aspects. The whole can be greater than the sum of it’s parts.
3) Economic development is not a one dimensional proposition. Streetcars are part of a broader plan where the level of financial investment may vary. For example, putting limits on the crush of social service agencies, in OTR, will benefit economic development without additional funds.
4) We should begin to taper off infrastructure expenditures, that benefit only rubber tired vehicles. For example, put streetcars in the urban core, rather than adding lanes to I-75.
5) Maybe he was referring to choices people make about their methods of transportation. Are you really that confused?
6) I’m not against finding better ways to generate electricity. Internal combustion fired buses are noisy and unpleasant to be around, whether they use diesel or bio-fuel.
7) I have to concede this one to you.
8) See number 1.
9) Tire trollies are dressed up buses, that are loud and smell bad.
10) How about, unbridled civic responsibility.
19 Feb 2009 at 01:07 pm | #
Dear anonymous successful alumni: we would love to know your real identities so we can judge for ourselves how successful you have been in your careers.
Stop acting like my comments are somehow bringing shame upon our station or CCM. I’m sure the Dean of CCM would be excited that students are taking the time to even produce a radio show covering these types of issues, so feel free to contact him if you wish.
My show primarily covers news, but I don’t think it’s inappropriate to give my editorial opinions. Several news programs do this, the difference being that on television there is usually a disclaimer stating that the comments are an editorial. If this is your problem with the show, I will certainly start explicitly stating when I am giving my opinions.
Keeping that in mind, I wasn’t planning on spending another half hour of this week’s show editorializing. I will respond to The Dean’s points and get through as much as possible, but I do have a guest lined up to speak on another topic. (Incidentally, the guest is from COAST, an organization that opposes the Streetcar, although as I said previously, they will be talking about a different topic. Also, if I do not have time to answer all of The Dean’s questions, I will certainly finish the response online.)
The podcast should be posted by Friday night for those of you who wish to listen.
19 Feb 2009 at 07:18 pm | #
JFD,
Here are my responses to your items.
1) If they thought your ideas were ridiculous, not saying so would have been, well….., ridiculous and unprofessional.
==>The issue of being “unbiased and professional” was raised not be me, but Dr. Owens, and apparently by UC radio alums. They asked, I answered. They can disagree without calling names.
2) The Streetcar can be different things to different people. Because it’s multi-faceted, it doesn’t need to be perfect in all of it’s separate aspects. The whole can be greater than the sum of it’s parts.
==>I asked what it is to the DJs. I did not ask the DJs to tell me what it is to everyone. Additionally, for all possible answers I could predict (including the combo answer) I provided follow up questions. Pick your answer and address the associated question, if you dare.
3) Economic development is not a one dimensional proposition. Streetcars are part of a broader plan where the level of financial investment may vary. For example, putting limits on the crush of social service agencies, in OTR, will benefit economic development without additional funds.
==>You avoided the question.
4) We should begin to taper off infrastructure expenditures, that benefit only rubber tired vehicles. For example, put streetcars in the urban core, rather than adding lanes to I-75.
==>You avoided the question.
5) Maybe he was referring to choices people make about their methods of transportation. Are you really that confused?
==>No, he was not. Listen to the debate.
6) I’m not against finding better ways to generate electricity. Internal combustion fired buses are noisy and unpleasant to be around, whether they use diesel or bio-fuel.
==>You avoided the question and changed the subject.
7) I have to concede this one to you.
==>Thank you.
8) See number 1.
==>See my response to the same.
9) Tire trollies are dressed up buses, that are loud and smell bad.
==>From where does the smell come?
10) How about, unbridled civic responsibility.
==>Then why was it coupled with Cincinnati agreeing not to oppose a rate hike? If what you say is true, they would do it without trying to pressure the City on a different, unrelated matter.
19 Feb 2009 at 08:23 pm | #
I am retired from my working career and now raising a family. I had my network contract when I was younger than you and worked for ABC Sports for quite some time- Monday Nite Baseball when it still existed. After that-I finished my degree, and worked in the Insurance Industry and have been QUITE successful to retire before the age of 53! Now my time is spent as a one parent family to a HS student due to the death of my spouse.
Now How Successfull am I- Let’s say- I spend my days volunteering at school, my church and working with an animal rescue. I DON’T NEED TO WORK. So- Sweetheart- shop getting your knickers in a wad over MY broadcast career. I worked with the late great Chet Forte for several years and also Jim McKay when covering the World and National Figure Skating Championships- as well as the Ky Derby and Indy.
So stop trying to compare my life to yours. You have yours ahead of you. And at the rate you are going-I hope you have a backup as well. Most of the former WFIB on air and techs- are no longer in the business. So- have a great backup with the eeconomy! So GET A LIFE- I’ve had mine!
As for this little controversy YOU started- Be professional about it- and complete the cycle- and the story.
20 Feb 2009 at 02:29 am | #
Hi, I am a director of Bearcast radio and I just have a couple of questions. First of all calling us all kids playing radio was disrespectful, and it seems like this whole situation is getting personal and it doesn’t need to be. The topic is wether or not we should have a street car, so who cares who has done what with their life, let explore Cincinnati give their responses and we can stay on topic. I am happy someone from Bearcast covered this because it was not covered by anyone else. Though you might not have liked the way it was covered, it is now getting discussed and that is the important issue at hand. There needs to be options for this and if everyone keeps taking this to a personal level we will end up no were. And by the way I was at the debate and I was the one that recorded the audio, and for the record the file was not edited and if you have any question about that I will allow anyone to view the original recorded audio file in my computer. This is an interesting topic and it can get heated, I am pro streetcar but I also think it could be done in different ways and I am open to other ideas. Buses and trollies are great but they have constant maintenance, I lived in germnay and experienced a first class transportation service, I would love to have something like it here as long as it is effective. So what others modes of transportation are there besides a streetcar or a trolly that could be used? The hardest thing in our world right now is that the green technologies we have aren’t that green besides wind energy, hydro-electric, and geothermol. Compact floresence have mercury in them and hybrids, like prius’s, aren’t that green due to the earth destroying batteries inside them. I am trying to learn from these discussions so that when it comes down to it I can make an informed decision. So let’s stay focused, no more negative comments about Bearcast, and no more negative comments about the beacon. Of course we will share our opinions, just like the beacon will share theirs. I am excited to here what all is left to be discussed so that myself and others like me can be informed on this important subject.
Thanks for listening
Zach Mueller
P.S. Excuse my spelling I typed this on my phone, sorry.
20 Feb 2009 at 02:32 am | #
Jason,
I’m sorry if my answers weren’t the ones you tried to dictate; I guess I can try to be less of a free thinker in the future.
From #4
Grease fired internal combustion.
20 Feb 2009 at 03:13 am | #
>1. I have not listened a second time to the show, but I remember distinctly that you called either me or my ideas “ridiculous.” I fail to see how such name-calling is part of what you call “professional conduct.”
It was unprofessional to show up unprepared for a debate on modern streetcars without having done even cursory internet research. You had no images and have no firsthand experience with modern streetcar systems or mass transit in general. It was unprofessional to continuously deflect the conversation to tourist-oriented heritage trolley lines. It was unprofessional to keep asking the audience questions when the audience could not respond except in an anonymous Q&A. It was unprofessional to belittle John Schneider’s slide presentation, which illustrated his points beautifully, and illustrated that he’s actually been there. The Seattle SLUT and Portland modern streetcar operate Skoda vehicles and are what has been studied for Cincinnati, not tourist lines like what exists in Memphis and Tampa.
>2.Some streetcar advocates present this as a mass-transit plan, like a precursor to a future regional light rail plan. Others say it can be both a transit and development plan, while some have no problem with Bortz’s claim. Please specify your position. According to the hosts of Explore Cincinnati, what sort of plan is this?
This is about turning Over-the-Rhine into one of America’s premier urban neighborhoods—a place where downtown workers, UC faculty and staff, and UC students can live in a walkable urban neighborhood with easy and respectable transit service to uptown and downtown. It will make it possible to live in a large area of Cincinnati without a car. A redeveloped Over-the-Rhine will be a major attraction to suburbanites and visitors. It’s also about taking a tax pit and turning it into a source of substantial tax revenue for the city.
>If this is not a transit plan, why do we need to disrupt traffic to stimulate businesses?
It won’t disrupt traffic. Hundreds of buses travel downtown everyday. The first phase of the streetcar project will consist of less than 10 vehicles. When I ride my bike to my job downtown, which I do every day, I swerve around stopped buses just like I’d swerve around stopped streetcars if I were in a car.
>Why not examine other methods for encouraging businesses to locate downtown?
Cars are reason #1 why Cincinnati and cities like it cannot compete with their own suburbs. Urban Planning 101, Dean.
>If this is a transit plan, why not look to create more mobility for less money, which would be accomplished with closed circuit downtown tire trolleys?
Because nobody will take your ridiculous trolley seriously or know that it’s even there without running on rails. The rails are advertising.
>Isn’t the point of transit to meet as many people where they are, taking them where they need to be?
Right, especially people who live in the city and work in the city, unlike you.
>Or, do you view this plan as a precursor to a future regional light rail plan?
Several streetcar lines around the country have been converted to light rail and even subways. Boston, San Francisco, Philadelphia, etc. You’d know this if you’d traveled and studied transit systems, which you haven’t.
>If so, why are streetcars a necessary precursor?
Because light rail per-mile capital costs are much higher and must be funded by the county and the county voted against funding light rail in 2002.
>The actual downtown streetcar vehicles will not be the same as any regional or inter-city rail cars. If a streetcar can pull up to an exchange for boarding regional light rail, why can’t a tire trolley?
It can, but no guarantee anyone will be on it because you don’t know it exists without seeing the actual vehicle, unlike a modern streetcar riding on rails. In fact the SLUT leads directly to a yet-to-open light rail station in Seattle. You’d know this if you had been there or taken time to read about it on the internet.
>Do you subscribe to the notion that this is about getting people used to the idea of “rails.” If so, is this the most cost-effective strategy to engage public relations for rail transit? Is that kind of psychological strategy an appropriate use of tax dollars?
Yes, absolutely. Again, if you’d studied HSR or transit, you’d know that few cities began any route with heavy rail subway or light rail prior to streetcar service. One example would be the BART transbay tube, which obviously did not have a streetcar precursor. But Boston’s blue line harbor tunnel was originally streetcar but upgraded to light rail. Philadelphia’s subway lines were originally surface streetcar lines.
>3. Why does Portland spend hundreds of millions of dollars to encourage downtown development in direct and indirect taxpayer subsidies, after the cost of the streetcar?
Because every city does that anyway, including ours.
>If it is true that streetcars bring development, why are these development subsidies necessary? (Remember, I’m talking about subsidies to business developers, and not subsidies to the streetcar, or to its energy source.)
Portland’s condos along the streetcar lines are not being subsidized, as Mr. Schneider made clear during the debate. He’s actually spoken with these developers in person while you lather yourself in assumptions. But you have not done any of your own research on the matter.
>If you acknowledge the fact that other cities saw this business development only after additional subsidies, above and beyond the cost of the streetcar, then what dollar amount, above and beyond the projected local streetcar costs, will Cincinnati need to spend to achieve desired results?
It’s logical to assume that along with private redevelopment of Over-the-Rhine, that the city can be expected to make streetscape improvements such as sidewalks, lights, and burying utilities. This can be eventually recovered when the neighborhood starts creating substantial tax revenue for the first time in decades.
>If you do not acknowledge the fact of these additional subsidies, why don’t you?
Would not these same subsidies be necessary for your trolley? Would you be proposing this trolly if not for the streetcar study?
>4. In your program last week, you spoke harshly against suburban families with multiple cars, even suggesting they have contributed to the county’s financial meltdown. You spoke negatively about cars. Please specify what role cars should play in the life of an average resident of both our city and the greater metropolitan area.
Cars should play a greatly reduced role both in commuting, errands, and long distance travel, especially someone like yourself who is so concerned about the environment.
>Should everyone rely on mass transit?
Everyone interested in saving money and reducing their carbon footprint and who doesn’t walk or bike to work everyday like myself.
>Do you wish to create more congestion for cars?
I am personally opposed nearly all road and highway expansion and believe Ohio should toll its major state highways and that the entire Interstate Highway network should be tolled. The highway trust fund went bankrupt last year and was bailed out by the feds. Clearly our highway funding structure is not working.
>What responsibility does government have for those travelers who own cars?
You drive one every day to work out in the suburbs so you tell me.
>5. Last week, you said John Schneider made his best point when discussing how people need to take a close look at their individual lifestyles, and how much energy we use in our daily lives. Can you explain what bearing a streetcar has on whether I install a geo-thermal system or use CFL bulbs to light my home? After all, you did call this his best point. I don’t know what is so great about his point, and I’m not sure how to research this connection.
You don’t know because this is all a game to you. I take the survival of Over-the-Rhine and the overall improvement of the city very seriously. But you’re a blazing hypocrite on this issue due to your suburb-to-suburb commute. I walk or ride my bike to my job in downtown Cincinnati. You talk the evironmental talk but you don’t walk it, unlike myself, and that’s because you don’t really want it bad enough.
>We have indicated the fact that bio-fuels release less carbon per passenger mile than coal-generated electricity. Many have discussed the dangers of how some bio-fuels are created. What is your position on both mountain top removal, and the recent coal ash spill in Tennessee?
Coal is a necessary evil because we do not have a practical large-scale alternative without building more nuclear plants or burning more natural gas. And Phase 1 of the streetcar will use less electricity than a 100,000 square foot building, and we have thousands of buildings that size in our metro area.
>emember, this is how electricity is generated locally.
You have indicated that Cincinnati could buy green energy credits to offset the electricity usage for the streetcar, but that would not stop the electricity actually used by the streetcar from being generated by coal. We could run a tire trolley system and still buy green energy credits. What does the purchase of green energy credits have to do with anything?
It has to do with John Cranley.
>What would you say to a plan that bought more green energy credits for less overall money due to the dollars saved from implementing a tire trolley and not a streetcar?
This isn’t about carbon credits. It’s about building on the momentum of 3CDC to attract private investment to the Findlay Market area and the rest of Over-the-Rhine.
>7. You said that I was not as prepared as I should have been. What single thing did I say that demonstrated an overall lack of preparation?
You had no visuals, you have not ridden transit systems, and you intentionally deflected the conversation to non-issues. You have not visited Seattle or Portland, where the Skoda vehicles which are the model for the Cincinnati system are in operation every day. You just now discovered the Portland arial tram, something streetcar supporters have known about for years…because they’ve been there.
>If you cannot identify such a point, do you consider it unbiased and professional to suggest I did not prepare for the debate?
Yes, because you wasted the time of a room full of college students and professionals.
>Even if you do have a point where you think I missed key details, do you think it unbiased and professional to suggest I did not prepare for the debate?
Yes, especially because your post-debate whining has been an attempt to turn a defeat into a victory.
>How do you know what I may have done to prepare?
Because I was there, because I know what a good speech is, because I speak in front of people 5-6 times a week, because I know what real research is, and because you were just playing the games of a wannabe politician.
>8. One of the DJs ridiculed me for telling a story about where electricity comes from to a room of educated people at a sustainability forum. Another DJ mused how the students in my story (the ones who did not know from where electricity comes) are now old enough to vote. How do you reconcile that irony?
You were the one saying you didn’t know what a circuit breaker was until 1998, at which point I knew it was going to be a long afternoon.
>Was your behavior in criticizing my choice of an introductory anecdote unbiased and professional?
Yeah, because your story really was that off-topic.
>9. Some who have criticized plans put forth by people like Charlie Winburn have called tire trolleys “just a dressed up bus.” This phrase presents “bus” as if the concept is negative. What is wrong with buses?
Why will people ride steel wheels, and not rubber wheels?
Because a lot of people in the professional world do not consider bus riding to be professional. Meanwhile, countless high paid professionals in New York, Washington, and elsewhere ride their city’s subways without that stigma. And for a lot less money, commuters ride Portland’s streetcar without that stigma.
>If you wish to say that rails show people which way the route goes, so would a painted line. Now, you may have other disagreements about painted lines, but I’m specifically talking about what would motivate someone to get on a particular mode of transit, and not another.
Because people don’t even know a bus is there. Comrade Jeffre mentioned the rubber-tired trolley in Savannah. I’ve been to Savannah but didn’t know they had a rubber-tired trolley. I didn’t see it. If I had driven or walked down or across a street with tracks in it, I would have known they had some kind of rail transit and would have been curious about it.
>So let’s stay on that single topic. Please explain, in as clear terms as possible, why someone would ride a streetcar and not a tire trolley, especially if it were equally clear where the routes went, and if they were both accessible, with comparable wait times, and any other variables we may imagine. What is wrong with a “dressed up bus”?
Because a rubber-tired tourist trolley is a joke. It’s not for residents and won’t attract any investment to Over-the-Rhine. Is your biodiesel trolly going to impress a worldly prospective UC student or faculty?
>Please answer this question directly, and do not react to other speculations I have may have voiced elsewhere. I am willing to amend prior opinions I’ve articulated if I can get a persuasive answer that makes sense.
I’ve answered it elsewhere and you could answer it for yourself if you’d travel outside of Kennedy Heights. Again, you have refused to list what transit systems you are familiar with. I refuse to discuss the matter with you further until you get off your couch and see what works elsewhere. I lived for a time in Boston and have ridden dozens of transit systems around the world. I’m going to keep calling you out on it until something changes. It’s only $200rt right now to Portland.
>10. The City of Cincinnati agreed not to fight Duke’s desire to impose a rate increase on City residents, and in exchange Duke gave a few million dollars to the streetcar plan. Please explain your opinion on why Duke would be interested in establishing an electric streetcar line downtown, and also explain how those interests fit with the interests of the average Cincinnati resident.
Right, this is all some big plot by Duke to swindle the city out of funds for years to come.
>In fact, since a huge portion of metropolitan Cincinnati’s population does not live downtown, nor on any of the proposed streetcar lines, while also owning cars, please explain why such a person should care about the streetcar plan.
Because downtown and uptown are the #1 and #2 areas for jobs, respectfully, and with an improved Over-the-Rhine we can be one of the best cities our size in the country. All suburbanites will benefit from a strong urban core and image in the ways the suburbs of Chicago and Washington do.
>The petition drive will give everyone a voice in this matter.
Including your clueless students.
>While supporting streetcars, do you also support the Democratic process engaged by this petition drive?
No, not when the people organizing the petition are not only ignorant, but defiantly ignorant. To my knowledge none of them have traveled to Seattle or Portland.
>If so, will you sign a petition?
No.
>f not, why not?
Because it’s being organized by people who have little or no experience with rail transit, especially the SLUT and Portland systems that are the model for Cincinnati.
Dean, you’re a joke. You and Jeffre have had years to build a following and you haven’t because you guys are unprofessional, selfish, and just plain not that good at what you do.
Jake Mecklenborg aka The Provost of Cincinnati
20 Feb 2009 at 06:55 am | #
Bill Landeck wrote:
Alternate exchange Bill:
20 Feb 2009 at 07:29 am | #
This is a personal attack. I did research. That is why, for example, I know that coal generated electricity puts more CO2 into the atmosphere per passenger mile than straight gasoline. That’s why I know about things like the environmental impact of the recent coal ash spill in Tennessee.
His slide show illustrated nothing. If I get a slide show of non-flattering pictures, what will that mean? Arguments have nothing to do with research. That was more like an ad campaign.
Once again, you avoid the issue of the massive tax subsidies to spur development. Why? The only conclusion is that you don’t want Cincinnati citizens thinking about this massive hidden cost. Also, I noticed your use of the word “respectable.” Please elaborate.
This swerving you describe… The streetcars can’t do it.
Does your vision of OTR include people from other parts of metropolitan Cincinnati? Please elaborate.
So are painted lines. You just don’t like that idea. To you, it sounds goofy. About as goofy as this streetcar line sounds to me.
Firstly, I do live in the City. Metropolitan Cincinnati has 52 neighborhoods. OTR is one. So is Mt. Airy, College Hill, Northside, etc.
So what you really just said is that this is a transit plan for one neighborhood funded by tax dollars from the other 51, who get nothing from it.
There you go with the petty personal attacks, college boy. I am quite familiar with how light rail systems work.
The actual rails and associated cars in OTR and Uptown are not necessary components of a regional or inter-city light rail plan. You would know this if you did your research. You really should do more than listen only to John Schneider before getting on the airwaves. It is an insult to all your listeners. (See how easy that game is?)
If you had marginal deductive reading abilities, you’d understand that a painted line fulfills this function.
So let’s clarify. You support spending tens of millions of City tax dollars to wage a psychological campaign for a future regional light rail campaign. Wow. Maybe you should study how people react to use of tax dollars and how political campaigns work before making such outlandish statements.
Did you just say Cincinnati is already spending all that money to subsidize development in OTR? If that is a true statement, then the development is already going to happen, without a streetcar. This is just simple deductive reasoning.
Talking to someone is research? Fine, I’ve talked to people who live and who have lived in Portland. One guy was totally disgusted with the streetcar, particularly with how the homeless people would hang out on it all the time. Maybe you would know that it you had not lathered yourself in the content-free propaganda of a simple slideshow.
Once again, you refuse to acknowledge in a concrete way this additional cost to the taxpayer. Do your research, kid.
You tell me. Does transit bring development, or subsidies. And what is the cost of the subsidies. Until you can address this straightforwardly, there is nothing to discuss.
You avoided the question.
Mass transit does not serve my commuting needs.
So let me get this straight—toll the major form of transit for most people in the region, and get an expensive choo-choo subsidized by everyone else’s tax dollars for a special class of “young professionals.”
Child, please.
According to you, I should pay not only to do that, but also for you to ride a choo-choo.
This is not a game. I don’t know because it cannot be known. There is no connection. Rhetorically, the phrase “I don’t know” does not always equate to “this is something I have failed to research.” It is unknown, because the premise itself is flawed. (Thanks for the tip, though, in the future I will say, “The premise is flawed” instead of “I don’t know,” or some other such construct.)
I am happy that you were able to find employment near where you live, or that you are young enough to have the mobility to move near where you work. Out here in grown up land, things aren’t always that simple. I am lucky enough to afford my own transit like a car. But I was not able to find employment closer to my home, and I do not desire nor am I able to move.
I do understand, however, that it is possible for cars to become more green, and that doing so is good for the environment. So when I can afford another car (or when the one I have now dies), I hope there are affordable options in cars and I will gladly buy one.
By the way, you avoided the question.
The fact that it uses less electricity than a building is not relevant. This debate is not about whether we should have a streetcar or a building. Electric transit is worse for the environment than bio-fuel transit.
Huh? Your side changes the subject, provides misdirection on green energy credits, and when I point this out you resort to name calling?
I guess you’ve been hanging out with Chris Bortz.
We were at a sustainability forum. I thought some might be interested to know the environmental sustainability of streetcars. Do your research. You would know that if you were prepared.
Interestingly, nothing you said had anything to do with research. I was told we were having a debate. Usually, debates do not have visual aids. But my lack of a visual aid means I didn’t research? Are you serious?
Name the key “non-issues” to which I deflected conversation.
No, the waste of time was Schneider’s pointless slideshow of obviously staged photos.
I think you’ve got that backwards, buddy.
Speculation, character smears, spins. Are YOU trying to be a politician?
More avoiding the isssue and dodging the question.
No, it was not.
What is unprofessional about a bus? What stigma? Please elaborate.
Savannah does not have a painted line. You have dodged the question, again. You really should be more prepared.
More of your classism?
More of your self-righteousness? I can’t wait to see you act this way when the thing gets on the ballot.
Avoiding the question.
Your conclusions are based on a premise with which many in the Cincinnati neighborhoods do not agree.
Including self-absorbed college kids, too.
Did you just call the Cincinnati branch of the NAACP “ignorant”?
Have you talked to any members of the NAACP, or even of COAST? Perhaps you should do your research first.
More insults and character smears from a future politician.
20 Feb 2009 at 10:45 am | #
From #9:
Yep, that would be considered a very alternate exchange. In fact, if you were to try and compare it to what was said, I would think you were confused; or, at the very least, you were still trying to dictate what you wanted me to say, after what was said, ....was said.
20 Feb 2009 at 02:47 pm | #
Dear News Director,
It is personal- because you have shown your behavior to be less than Professional-and that is what student radio is about-being Professional from the moment you open that mike switch.
Being responsible for reasearch before you show up to a debate. Know the lay of the land before you get there- and who the players are. You didn’t know about the Berding connection? OK- How does the street car benefit the Price Hill Will Plans? Your comments? This is a huge plan that had a meeting that had county commissioners, the US Congressman and the members of Price Hill Will this week at Elder HS. So what will the street car do for them? HUH?
Just stop it- Until you grow up and realize that what you did- is enough to get you FIRED from a broadcast station- you will still be playing radio. Sorry! And that is all we did at WFIB- be played Radio! So get a grip- you may get a stipend-but you aren’t being paid- so what are you doing? It is a learning experience. So stop being such a nappie!
20 Feb 2009 at 02:59 pm | #
Hey college student, I’ve been on more transit systems than you and I support the petition.
I thought the Dean gave a great presentation and I certainly wasn’t alone. A thoughtful young college student came up to us after the debate and said that though he leaned towards a Streetcar he thought the Dean won the debate.
The slide show was really an insult to college students and professionals. I think everybody there knew what a Streetcar was and what they looked like and so it was a waste of time. And you don’t need visual aids for a debate, especially one that is going to be aired on radio.
This will be on the ballot and your arrogant remarks aren’t going to win anybody over.
20 Feb 2009 at 05:03 pm | #
Dean and Justin Jeffre: Admittedly, I am not all that familiar with you and the work of the groups you belong to so I ask these questions in all seriousness…
1) You say you have a huge concern with the environment and the use of coal. Besides furiously opposing the streetcar project, what have you or your groups done to protect the environment and open spaces and promote cleaner energies?
2) You claim you are working for the city’s best interests. I’d be interested in hearing some of the intiatives you and your group have taken to really improve the quality of life for the city of Cincinnati.
3) You say you huge fans of mass transit. What types of projects or work have you supported in this regard? Did you play a large role in promoting the massive light rail plan on the table in 2002 that was voted down?
I ask these questions because I’m getting the sense that this is becoming a personal issue and not about improving the city of Cincinnati. Your name has become known now and traffic has increased on this site. Is that your top priority?
20 Feb 2009 at 05:18 pm | #
A rebuttle to all this will be aired on Bearcast, today at 4 pm. During the All Taste Explosion with the Boogaloo Shrimp.
20 Feb 2009 at 05:54 pm | #
It’s amusing that you ask personal questions and then say you think this is becoming a personal issue. Streetcar advocates are attacking the Dean and me personally because we have questioned what seems to be an ideology for some.
My name was already known and so was this site. Have you ever heard of google? If you don’t have anything to say about Streetcars then the best you can do is try to make it about individual grease trolley and Sky Tram proponents? Is that your top priority? Or are you more concerned with improving the city of Cincinnati? If you are, I don’t know how your questions are relevant.
I really don’t have anything to prove to anonymous commenters. For the record, I did work on the Light Rail campaign, but this isn’t Light Rail, silly.
20 Feb 2009 at 09:21 pm | #
It isn’t unusual for one of Justin’s or the Dean’s post to have well over 50-60 post- so don’t think that this issue has created traffic on the site. You have just found the place obviously.
He has broken so many stories first-and things that the normal media NEVER would cover- The Heimlich Institute story for one- that you don’t have a clue. That is why it is nonimated for Blog of the year!!!
And these guys are fair- and post both ways- stuff where we bash them- if we disagree and supportive post- That is why it is so popular.
Don’t think This incident increased the traffic!! That is laughable!