Hot News!
• Giving Thanks and the Holiday Season Kick-Off
Contact Us
v mail, fax: (214) 481-6464
e mail: click here
On today's date in The Beacon archives, we published:
•Invisible Cincinnati Residents (2007)•Hip-Hop solves problems for Cincinnati’s youth (2006)
Events
 Saturday, December 6 6th annual St. Nick Day Sale
IJPC is located in Peaslee Neighborhood Center at 215 E. 14th Street, Cincinnati OH 45202. We will be selling fair-trade items from all over the world. Your purchase helps benefit artisans from around the world as well as IJPC! |
Tuesday, December 16 CeaseFire Cincinnati, 3rd Tuesday, 5:30 pm Want to learn more about CeaseFire? Attend our monthly Community Coalition Meetings Held at the Avondale Pride Center, 3520 Burnet, CeaseFire Cincinnati: The Campaign to STOP the Shooting (513) 675 - 4102 http://www.ceasefirecincinnati.org |
Wednesday, December 17 Monthly meeting - IJPC General Peace Committee, 7 pm - 3rd Wednesday of every month - Peaslee Neighborhood Center, 513-579-8547, All are Welcome! |
Friday, May 30, 2008
City’s Fountain Square Restaurant Deal with 3CDC
Posted by Michael Earl Patton
One aspect of the city’s Fountain Square deal with 3CDC that has received very little attention concerns the new restaurant above the Vine Street entrance to the parking garage. This restaurant, Via Vita, is built mostly on city-owned land—land that had been part of Fountain Square. So The Cincinnati Beacon requested some public records from the city to see what the deal was.
The above-ground lease between the city and Fountain Square, LLC (a wholly-owned subsidiary of 3CDC) allows them to build and operate a restaurant on Fountain Square. The rent paid to the city for this privilege is $100 per year. The lease runs for 40 years and ends when the lease for the below-ground parking garage ends.
In turn, Fountain Square, LLC has subleased the restaurant building to Via Vita for a period of 10 years for a fee of 5% of the gross proceeds or $60,000 per year, which ever is greater.
The Cincinnati Beacon did not determine which entity—the city or 3CDC—actually bore the costs of constructing the restaurant building, but focused on the use of the city’s land. A small portion of the restuarant appears to be built on land that is owned by Fifth Third Bank.
The $100 yearly rent collected by the city for the privilage of operating a restaurant on public land stands in sharp contrast to the fee the city charges for itinerant vendors, which is $150 per day (Chapter 839 of the Cincinnati Municipal Code). When calculating costs of the Fountain Square deal with 3CDC, some attempt should also be made to account for the restaurant deal, too.
• Share This Article!
Listen to this article
|  |
Register
Anonymous comments are allowed, but you can create an account above to stamp your name and to avoid typing the anti-spam code.
If you are not familiar with our rules for leaving comments, click here! The Cincinnati Beacon is not responsible for the contents of any comments. Comments do not represent the views of the moderators of The Cincinnati Beacon.
30 May 2008 at 09:57 am | #
Suprised you haven’t also been looking into the Mr Clean car wash that is opening in FS Garage.
31 May 2008 at 06:44 am | #
And 3CDC claims to be a not for profit corporation? Vera Z
31 May 2008 at 12:10 pm | #
BTW...it’s Via Vite. I’ve noticed that you’ve misspelled it several times.
BTW, there’s is nothing illegal about a non-profit generating revenue, as long as it doesn’t pay that revenue out to shareholders/stakeholders. If you can uncover 3CDC members actually receiving dividends from the money they generate, then that would be a story.
31 May 2008 at 12:44 pm | #
I have never suggested there is something illegal about a non-profit generating revenue. However, there is a story in uncovering the deal 3CDC got from their friends in City Hall.
31 May 2008 at 03:03 pm | #
We were the only one’s to raise the question of how much garage revenue the city was giving up over the 40 year term of the lease. Nobody on council seems to have a clue about what the estimated number is. Shouldn’t that have been one of the questions Council (and the media) asked before signing away our public square and garage for 40 years?
I know why Margaret Buchanan’s Enquirer didn’t ask the question, but why didn’t any other media outlets? It took a reporter from channel 5 that was new to the city to ask the same question well after the deal was done. They low balled the number at only $33 million, but at least they asked the question.
When I asked them where they got that number they said 3CDC was quite nastey and they had to give 3CDC the benefit of the doubt. I don’t know why 3CDC deserves the benefit of the doubt when they were being misleading about the deal to the public in the first place.
31 May 2008 at 03:56 pm | #
LeMaster has to be dense if he can’t see the sham that has went on. It is illegal to give away public assets and that is what has been done.
It is wrong for the city to favor one of its businesses and expect the others to feel they are being treated fairly. What is the difference between what has been happening and the dirty schemes that
Boss Cox was accused of years ago. It is called corruption.
This restaurant is owned by the owners of Nicolas. There food is okay but expensive for what you get. The wealthier can afford to go there if they want but we should not be expected to support the wealthier. Wealth disparity is the number one problem in this city and the City government has taken steps to widen the gap. They are not only corrupt but stupid.
31 May 2008 at 10:00 pm | #
You’re right. I did misspell it. I apologize for the misspelling.
There is nothing illegal about a non-profit generating revenue, and I did not say there was anything illegal.
There is, in my opinion, a corrosive effect on the business climate in the city when a few parties get special deals and others get their taxes raised to pay for those special deals.
It is also unseemly to rent out prime city property at such a favorable price—way below market rates. There was no bidding for who would pay the most money. If there isn’t a law against such deals, I think there should be.
01 Jun 2008 at 07:05 pm | #
Not true. Smitherman raised it (and was the only dissenting vote to the deal) and it was also discussed heavily on the old 1230 Buzz discussion board. As I recall, the Beacon picked up the story b/c of a guest article by Chris Smitherman in late ‘05 after the vote had taken place in June.
01 Jun 2008 at 07:33 pm | #
Bearman, yes, Smitherman did raise the issue and vote against it (thanks councilman Smitherman!), but I was refering to media outlets and the council members that voted for it.
I know Smitherman talked about it on the Buzz, but I don’t recall any of the talking heads really taking the issue on. I’m not familiar with their discussion board, but the Buzz isn’t exactly a major media source that really does reporting and they didn’t report on this though some people in the public might have talked about it.
I think you’re missing my point here. Where were all the papers and TV news outlets? You had a council person vote against it and talk about it, but they ignored the whole thing.
(I remember talking about it the Jay Love show when Kevin Armstrong called in with misinformation. He said it was only a 30 year lease, but all he had to do was go to the 3CDC website to find out it’s a 40 year lease.)
2005 was actually pre-Beacon and we discussed it on the Dean of Cincinnati’s blog and asked Smitherman to discuss it. Smitherman was the only council person that talked about it. If you asked any of the 8 council members that voted for it what the estimated annual revenue over the 40 year term of the lease would be, they had no idea or just wouldn’t say.
I know Smitherman is a numbers guy, but shouldn’t every council member have been concerned with this question and shouldn’t the media have brought it up?
02 Jun 2008 at 06:26 am | #
#1 No it is not illegal, but when you combine a bunch of LLC’s, you have the unique opportunity to move money, or taxes, or losses between them. Where you want them to go. In an LLC the money can be distributed in any % they want. So the money could end up anywhere. So, who gets the money?
That lease is WAY below market rates especially for that location. Were there any option years?
What was the process that they got it and not someone else?
alot of questions there for sure. Also, while it is based on a fixed price, or sales whichever is greater, but pasta is cheap and the profit is very very high.
I bet Jeff Ruby or another Chef in town would have LOVED the opportunity for that deal.
02 Jun 2008 at 06:58 am | #
ha ha...I got it Justin. You know me, I am just a stickler when people tend to speak/write in absolutes.
I am not one of those who necessarily think the deal was a bad one. It may be...but then again if we relied on the city to do something about fixing up the square, the garage, and surrounding areas, how long would we have to wait. But I was amazed at the time that no one wanted to discuss the financials of the deal on record except Smitherman and to get the most beneficial terms.
02 Jun 2008 at 08:07 am | #
Yes. The initial term is 10 years. There is an option for a 5-year renewal term at the same percent of gross sales (5%) or $92,158 per year, whichever is greater. The lease states that there will be no further renewal term.
I have no idea by what process Via Vite got the lease.
02 Jun 2008 at 09:18 am | #
Here is an excerpt from the Cincinnati Courier:
big investment
“Pietoso declined to say what he has invested in the site, but admitted, with a laugh, that it is about $500,000 more than he expected. He has signed a 10-year lease with the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., known as 3CDC, which in turn is leasing the building from the city. The structure itself, not including Pietoso’s investment, cost $2.5 million to build, said Chad Munitz, executive vice president of 3CDC.”
I calculate that the City has given the space to Via Vite for 3.6 percent of the taxpayer’s investment and that does not include the cost of depreciation , which is significant. This is almost as bad as the City giving away our building at Fourth and Race for some ridiculously low figure.
I don’t know all of the details of the lease and such things like taxes may make it even more ridiculous.
We need to bring back Boss Cox; at least, he had charisma.
02 Jun 2008 at 09:22 am | #
Here is an excerpt from the Cincinnati Courier:
big investment
“Pietoso declined to say what he has invested in the site, but admitted, with a laugh, that it is about $500,000 more than he expected. He has signed a 10-year lease with the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., known as 3CDC, which in turn is leasing the building from the city. The structure itself, not including Pietoso’s investment, cost $2.5 million to build, said Chad Munitz, executive vice president of 3CDC.”
I calculate that the City has given the space to Via Vite for 3.6 percent of the taxpayer’s investment and that does not include the cost of depreciation , which is significant. This is almost as bad as the City giving away our building at Fourth and Race for some ridiculously low figure.
I don’t know all of the details of the lease and such things like taxes may make it even more ridiculous. And rents are based on present day dollars and there are no cost-of-living increases.
We need to bring back Boss Cox; at least, he had charisma.
02 Jun 2008 at 10:24 am | #
WOW even in the option years that is WAY below market for that location, or just about anywhere downtown. many ways to “scrub” the sales too. Not saying he would, but could.
02 Jun 2008 at 11:21 am | #
I am not too dense to see “the sham that has went on”, dieterschmied. What I am saying is - dig deeper. As usual, there are a lot of accusations being tossed around when, by the Beacon’s own admission, there are a lot of unknowns.
02 Jun 2008 at 05:46 pm | #
We will have Deans Day On The Square! Or would that conflict with the boring 3cdc Events that noone attends? We could bring in Rock Bands from all over the US (or whichever kind of music the dean prefers) The dean could be selling capes for the kids, glow sticks, dean of cincinnati dolls… Justin could even help out with a 98 degrees as part of the concert. There could be bikini competitions, skate boarding competitions, Hell we could even set up a Karoke Stage between bands! We could throw in a few slip n slides for daring people to cool off on, Dont forget to include the 3cdc and city council dunking boothe! Man this would be some serious FUN!!!!!!!! LOL
03 Jun 2008 at 11:30 am | #
It takes time to dig deeper Kevin. Even though all the records are public, they can give you a hard time getting them, not to mention them finding where they hid them.
but with 3cdc, all you have to do is follow the money. even with 3 LLC’s, it is possible, just harder.
03 Jun 2008 at 01:16 pm | #
Wow. 2-1/2 million dollars? Did the Courier say who paid for the building?
I ask because this wasn’t clear from what I’ve read so far in the documents that I have received from the city. If it was 2-1/2 million dollars, then even assuming a 4% interest rate one would expect the rent to be at least $100,000 per year just to cover the cost of the money. But the minimum rent is set at $60,000. If the money came from 3CDC, then it probably would not be making a profit.
As R (#10 & #15) stated, this is a good deal. Not only is the use of the land virtually free, but the building itself is leased at below cost.
Can you please tell us where to dig? It took me several hours of my time just to get a copy of the lease from City Hall. We all squeeze time for The Cincinnati Beacon into our already busy days.
04 Jun 2008 at 12:23 pm | #
It is not responsibility to tell you where to dig or to provide you with the time to do it. It is your responsibility as “media activists” to take the time to gather the information to round out your story.
I know it’s tedious. Good luck!
04 Jun 2008 at 07:53 pm | #
No, it is not our responsibility to follow every wild goose.
Nor is it our responsibility as “media activists.” Don’t lay the fact that the city is messed up on the doorstep of The Cincinnati Beacon. If you know where the bodies are buried it is your responsibility to tell others where to dig if you won’t do it yourself.
It is everyone’s responsibility as CITIZENS to speak out against corruption. Don’t write yourself an excuse.
04 Jun 2008 at 10:01 pm | #
Amen !
05 Jun 2008 at 02:46 pm | #
“Don’t lay the fact that the city is messed up on the doorstep of The Cincinnati Beacon. If you know where the bodies are buried it is your responsibility to tell others where to dig if you won’t do it yourself.”
But I don’t know where the bodies are buried, and I never said that I did. I merely suggested that this story could be so much deeper, and that if you’re going to continue posting about it then it might be a good idea to take the time to dig as deeply as you can.
It certainly is your responsibility to chase the wild goose if you’re continually putting the hypothesis out there. At least if you want to be taken seriously.
“We don’t have time” isn’t a good answer. I’m still reading the same stuff on here I saw one or two years ago.
And no, it is not my responsibility to populate your website. It is your responsibility to provide content that people want to read.
I don’t know why you guys always get so defensive when someone offers you some constructive criticism. You all have a way of talking down to your readers that’s kind of off-putting.
05 Jun 2008 at 03:20 pm | #
Kevin,
You did not read this one or two years ago. We just learned it, and we are, to my knowledge, the first to report it.
05 Jun 2008 at 09:39 pm | #
Well, Kevin seems to be reading what we are putting out there.
There are many, many leads that we try to work on when we can. Calling attention to one story and saying, “dig deeper,” and saying that we’re missing stuff, certainly implies that the person thinks that there is something there.
Kevin, for all his griping, doesn’t take issue with the facts that we have reported.
Again, we do this as citizens. Complaints about how the news media fail to properly cover the Fountain Square issues should be directed at those media which have failed to report as much as The Cincinnati Beacon has.
16 Oct 2008 at 12:14 pm | #
They are definitely getting a sweet deal here. No question about it. $100 for a yearly rent collection fee.