Friday, July 04, 2008

City on Hook for F.S. Restaurant

Posted by Michael Earl Patton

“The Genius of Bill Donabedian” courtesy of here.

As reported earlier in The Cincinnati Beacon, the city agreed to pay all the construction costs for what became the Via Vite restaurant building.  The Beacon has further examined the deal and it appears that the city’s commitment to fund the restaurant is written in such a way that they cannot wiggle out of it.

Via Vite is an expensive restaurant built mostly on public land in Fountain Square.  Both before and after publishing the article, the Beacon asked public officials for comment.  Little was received in response, which basically was that the city did agree to cover the costs but it doesn’t matter since the intent was to have 3CDC pay for it anyways.  The latest response will be discussed in more detail later.

Certainly the deal for the city to pay for the restaurant was hidden.  It was buried in a tangle of verbiage.  Here’s are some of the relevant points:

1. The city, in its lease with Fifth Third , agreed to pay for the construction of the restaurant building on Fountain Square (par. 8.1 (c)).  Note: I’ve been having trouble with this link recently and have been working off of a paper copy of the actual signed lease.

2. The same lease states that the city cannot get anyone else to take over that responsibility without the express written consent from Fifth Third.  Any attempt, even by ordinance, to do so without Fifth Third’s permission is “null and void ab initio” (par. 12.1).

3. The same lease states that even if Fifth Third were to give their permission, the city has to come through with the money if the other party defaults (par. 12.1).

4. The lease states that the building can be mortgaged for up to 30 years (par. 13.1(a)).

5. The city did sign an agreement with 3CDC (through their subsidiary Fountain Square, LLC) where they take over the responsibility to pay for the restaurant.  In return they acknowledge receipt of “good and valuable consideration” from the city.  So what, exactly, did they get from the City?  It is not stated and it is unknown, but they do acknowledge that it is “sufficient.” It doesn’t have to have been cash.

6. If a token amount—say, a dollar—were given, then one has to wonder why this amount wasn’t stated in the agreement.  As it is written it is wide open.

7. Even if just a token amount was given to 3CDC for them to take over the responsibility to pay for the restaurant, the city is on the hook if 3CDC took out a mortgage and then defaults.

8. The rent from the building would not be sufficient to pay the mortgage unless the restaurant did an extremely good business.

9. There are at least two more documents to ask for.  One is the written consent from Fifth Third and the other would state whatever this “good and valuable consideration” actually is.

So the city is on the hook for the restaurant.  Maybe it hasn’t paid anything yet, maybe it paid just a little so far, maybe a lot, maybe it paid something other than cash, but it is responsible for paying for it.

Meg Olberding, the assistant to the City Manager and Public Information Officer, wrote that the ordinance approving the agreement states the city intended to assign the responsibility to pay for the restaurant to Fountain Square, LLC (wholly owned by 3CDC).  Because the city so stated its intent, it is therefore not responsible regardless of the contract language.

Frankly, I disagree.  Even without the points discussed above, I disagree.  A contract is an agreement between at least two parties.  In this case it was between the city and Fifth Third.  3CDC was not included.  Council gave authority to the city manager to sign the contract as it was written. The ordinance language only shows what the city was planning to do with its responsibilities AFTER the contract was written and is certainly not binding on Fifth Third or 3CDC.

And the language of the ordinance itself doesn’t say anything about the city intending to have 3CDC pay for the restaurant.  Instead it says, “WHEREAS, the City of Cincinnati wishes to lease the Property for assignment to Fountain Square, LLC, to use in the construction of a restaurant on Fountain Square; ... “ Note that it says the intent is for 3CDC (through its subsidiary, Fountain Square, LLC) to use the land for construction of the restaurant, not to take over the responsibility for paying for the restaurant.

So the city, and thereby its taxpayers, is responsible for paying for the brand-new luxury restaurant on Fountain Square, built on public land, though a deal that was hidden from the public.

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R says:
04 Jul 2008  at  03:21 pm | #

There you go. There certainly should be a copy of the “ written plan of assingment “ made by the City to the Landlord to assign this to FSMG, even if that plan was agreed upon beforehand between all the parties as I am sure it was. This requirement was in the lease.

There is NO question that one way or the other, they city will pay for this restaurant.  They just have not yet. It is probable that it will be years down the road, but the city will pay for this restaurant.  90% loan for 2,225,000, plus the remaining 10 % from Nichola who in return ( “ Paid 500,000 more than he thought he said with a smile “ ) , got a way below market rate lease.

The Consideration the City gave could easily be taking the responsibilty to pay off the loan.

R says:
05 Jul 2008  at  03:00 pm | #

MEP- The City should also have a copy of any loan taken out on the restaurant, contain terms, % rate etc etc, unless it is in the Written plan required by the lease.  After all the are on the hook for it and they know it.

so yes, one or 2 pieces of paper are missing. Great Job !!

Freedom Fighters says:
05 Jul 2008  at  04:21 pm | #

.

GREAT JOB, Michael !

.

says:
05 Jul 2008  at  06:29 pm | #

This is tremendous work Mr. Patton!!!!

If there was a political blog emmey award, this should be considered.

I hope that the Enquire gives credit where it is due, when this hits the papers.

Shoot me a private e-mail.  I might have another one for you.  The Dean has my permission to release my e-mail to you.

says:
05 Jul 2008  at  09:02 pm | #

I don’t understand how this city can shell out our money for Nicola’s when they turned their back on an established five-star restaurant a few years ago.

R says:
06 Jul 2008  at  11:27 am | #

dieterschmied- Yeah , the longest running Mobile 5 Star restaurant in the world.

The place that people would brave even the riots for.It did affect them though. I actually have a good Wall Street Journal article on it somewhere.

There were other issues there. Many times when a restaurant passes to the kids, things change, they may have personal habbits ... But still, no the city did not even give a crap that was a postive that was well know all over.

The E will not print this story. The “who paid for it” , or shall I say who will pay for it, is most likely solved. MEP is right there HAS to be 1 or 2 pieces of paper on file with the city somewhere. The actual terms of the loan , and this may include that, but the lease required a written plan . Where is it?

Also, this brings other questions.  Is the garage loan written in the same manner? The financing ( loan ) of that may be of the exact same structure.  Is the city on the hook for that loan too? I bet they are.

Then , another other clue was the article in the paper that 3cdc had bid on a block of porperty owned by CPS in OTR between 13th and 14th and I believe walnut . The CPS was holding on to it in case they had to build a school.  Well, they see the writting on the wall that there are not enough kids left in OTR to need to build one, so they agreed to sell.  Me Leeper Offered 4.9 million dollars on behalf of 3cdc for this block. Then decided to back off and let the CITY do the actual purchase, as they had “ more creative financing available to them”.  So the city is buying the block for ASSIGNMENT to 3cdc.

So in other words, the restaurant is the model of the financing of all of this. The city will pay for all of them. 

OTR Holdings is what interests me. Thae garage and square ( restaurant included) will not be owned by someone else.  But what about all the buildings in OTR ?  Those are something tangible. The 4.9 million block is a good example.  So the city buys it, assigns it to 3cdc, and like the Gateway Condo, it ends up in private delevopers hands.  Several other buildings they brag about in video and such. What are the terms the developers getting?  MEP pointed out that 4.9 million for this block is overvalued.  Where does the difference go?

OTR holdings is where the money trail ends.

I have been learning alot about Ohio TIF laws. In the end, this is what is being used. But there is a large potential for abuse when there is NO, ZERO, NADA oversight of how the TIF’s are being used, the money being paid for particular properties etc etc.  You assign it to a PRVIATE “non=profit”, and there is no oversight who is spending the money. Why would they spend 4,9 million that is not worth 4.9 million?  Are they going to sell it to a private developer( Stakeholders) for 3.5?

OTR Holdings is the key to all of this, and the purpose was the gentrification of OTR . Which has basically been done.

JE says:
06 Jul 2008  at  02:32 pm | #

Who is OTR Holdings made up of? Who is involved?

R says:
06 Jul 2008  at  04:43 pm | #

MEP can correct me if I am wrong, but the only name on it is Mr Leeper. So it is 3CDC.  They are the ones grabbing all the buildings in OTR

Bearman says:
06 Jul 2008  at  06:45 pm | #

A.  3CDC only has control over fountain square for 40 years.  The city would have to be involved in order to get the 99 year lease terms from 5/3.
B.  The only missing document that seems to matter is the contract between 3CDC and the city.  That would show that the city transfer the responsibility to them.  Sure ultimately the city is responsible but I don’t think they are paying for it...because
C.  If indeed the city offered any money for the project beyond what was already disclosed (even though 3CDC is a private non profit), wouldn’t sunshine laws require 3CDC to open their records on that account?  If there is a lawyer out there maybe they could weigh in.

says:
06 Jul 2008  at  08:55 pm | #

wouldn’t sunshine laws require 3CDC to open their records on that account?—from Bearman (#9)

There was an Ohio Supreme Court decision a year or so ago that said the sunshine laws do not apply to a non-profit organization even when that non-profit is doing work paid for by the government.

Maybe the city had to get involved for the 99-year lease, but did the city still have to guarantee to pay for the restaurant building?  Fifth Third is a part of 3CDC.  What’s the matter?  Doesn’t Fifth Third trust 3CDC?

I have the document assigning the responsibilities to 3CDC and 3CDC accepting, but 1) I don’t know if this was approved by Fifth Third as required in their lease, and 2) the document says that there was “good and valuable consideration” given to 3CDC in order to sign.  This is a stock phrase which could mean anything from a token amount to millions of dollars.  Or it could mean property or something other than cash.  But what it was is not stated in the document.

Say it was a token amount—just a dollar.  Then say 3CDC takes out a 30-year mortgage to have money for the construction of the restaurant.  Say the mortgage is with Fifth Third.  If 3CDC defaults, the city still has to make the mortgage payments and thereby winds up paying for the restaurant.

That this scenario is realistic is seen by the fact that the amount Via Vite pays 3CDC to rent the building could be far less than the cost of servicing the mortgage.  The rent is $60,000 per year or 5% of gross sales, whichever is greater.  If the mortgage is $2-1/2 million and the interest rate is 5% and the mortgage is for 30 years, the yearly payments are at least $160,000 (loan fees would add to this.) That’s more than twice what the minimum rent is.

For Via Vite to pay $160,000 per year in rent, their gross sales would have to be $3.2 million per year.  That is certainly possible, but again the point is who’s left holding the bag if sales fall short and the mortgage payments are also short?  Answer: the taxpayers of Cincinnati!

R says:
06 Jul 2008  at  09:16 pm | #

Bearman

A. Yes to 40 years. 40 years is the TIF period.

B. Correct. It might be 2 documents since the lease required a “written plan” for what was going to be, or any changes. So , for instance if Nicola went out of business, and they changed Tennents, the CITY has to write that to the landlord .Not 3cdc.  The terms of the 90% loan from 5/3 would HAVE to be in writting somewhere in the city, or in the “plan of assignment “ .  That should contain the terms of of the loan, and payback schedule etc etc. It’s either one or 2 documents that the CITY should have that they are not producing or claiming they dont have.  Both the Dean and MEP have both written

MEP wites - “ The city did sign an agreement with 3CDC (through their subsidiary Fountain Square, LLC) where they take over the responsibility to pay for the restaurant.  In return they acknowledge receipt of “good and valuable consideration” from the city.  So what, exactly, did they get from the City?  It is not stated and it is unknown, but they do acknowledge that it is “sufficient.” It doesn’t have to have been cash."”

The person I talked to who is helping me with the TIF’s and is an Attorney said that this could mean EASILY, that they would ultimately pay for the restaurant. 2.5 million would be good and vaulable to 3cdc. They( CITY ) is on the hook for it anyway, and It was his opinion that they would indeed pay the loan.  As the Dean pointed out, even with the crazy numbers ‘annon” gave, they will not pay of this loan. The city will.

The 3 seperate LLC’s create alot of shade. No oversight makes it a canopy from the sun.  That rent money, is going to one of the other LLC’s, besides MAYBE , them using part to make payments on the loan. Who knows? maybe they have not paid anything, and as the lease states, “ Landlord will make the payments that are missed, and charge the city for the payment. “

I was told that the events on Fountain square, by Fountain Square management, that they operate by the fee’s events they produce.If that is the case ( and they are really not very honest) profit on stage rental, fee’s, alcohol sales etc etc, is their budget.That would explain alot about one permit I know very well.  So maybe the city is making the loan payments now?  That would “ be good and valuable consideration”.  You can be sure that any substancial dollars that may come from the square, are going to one of the other LLC’s. How much does annon get paid? Nobody knows. In the announcement of his being named manager, the last line was “salary not disclosed”

How much is Leeper being paid? anyone know?

The money trail thru 3cdc ends at OTR Holdings. The benefit , besides the 39 % Fedral Tax break to the stakeholders, as you pointed out ( pretty great return! ) is somewhere in OTR holdings. It is where there is the only thing that exists that is tangible and transferable in all of this is.  Buildings and property in gentrified OTR .

The document of assigment, or the “plan” required by the landlord, would be the only thing in the sunshine. Also, for instance, when 3cdc has this block bought for them by the city, details of that should be a city record. Other than that, or any other property bough by the city, and assigned to 3cdc, should also have some city paper. Remember ANNON, posted, “ you will never pierce the ammor of 3cdc”.

I have asked this guy to write something about Ohio TIF law, and will forward it to MEP or the Dean.  What I have learned , is pretty interesting. They are easily “abused” but not abnormal to use “private development companies” .  Which brings up to me, the question, Why is there no oversight by the city?  They KNOW what the plan is, and with a board, imagine how tangled things could be?  This way, they(3cdc) basically has free reign. The city has no politcal problem of a gentrified OTR ( after all they didnt do it, 3cdc did Mr Citizen)

When the city buys this block in OTR from CPS FOR 3cdc, that will be something to watch. Follow the money from these deals . How does a building, bought by the city, assigned to 3cdc, and then a private developer builds the condo’s. What changed hands and between who?

I can see why they did it this way, as there would be a horrible Political problem for the council to say” we are cleaning it out”, which is probably why there is no oversight. I am sure that the contributions come election day, will be substancial . 

Maybe this would be the waffling on PR?  Watch the deals in OTR has been the suggestion I have heard over and over by people who understand how these operate.  They cannot sell, or tranfer the Square, but they sure can a bunch of buildings. That’s where the money changes hands.  In this TIF, the city, will not need to go and install water and sewar lines. They are already there.

R says:
06 Jul 2008  at  09:25 pm | #

PS MEP. I hadnt been able to pull up the ordinance before.  You may be right, about the ordinace and the lease-assingment.

R says:
06 Jul 2008  at  09:30 pm | #

"For Via Vite to pay $160,000 per year in rent, their gross sales would have to be $3.2 million per year.  That is certainly possible, but again the point is who’s left holding the bag if sales fall short and the mortgage payments are also short?  Answer: the taxpayers of Cincinnati! “

Thats possible, but they better start catching up quickly. They are not doing those numbers.  In the end, the city will pay for this restaurant.

R says:
06 Jul 2008  at  10:34 pm | #

I forgot, but kind of hit on this is another post.  out of that 3.3 million, he still has his food cost, his labor cost, his insurance, his spoons, etc etc.  His Liquor cost ( my drink was kind stong and the wine was a heavy pour, so, he is going to have to do way higher than that. Also remember, that food has gone up dramtically since that restaurant opened.

this come out of sales.  so unless he is doing 500 people a day( and thats low) with his hours of operation , he isn’t doing too hot.

Bearman says:
06 Jul 2008  at  11:28 pm | #

There was an Ohio Supreme Court decision a year or so ago that said the sunshine laws do not apply to a non-profit organization even when that non-profit is doing work paid for by the government.

But could the courts be changing… More recent Sixth Circuit court ruling seems to go another way than the SC of Ohio

Bearman says:
06 Jul 2008  at  11:41 pm | #

R, I am not sure about your math.

Let’s assume as you say to cover the mortgage that 3CDC has the restaurant must gross $3.2 mill.  That means sales would need to average a little less than $8800 a day.  Looking at their menu I would say AT MINIMUM the average lunch would cost about $20 (meal + app/salad/dessert) and the average dinner $40 (meal+app/salad/dessert and drinks (pre tax/tip)

That would equal about 170 people for dinner and 100 for lunch.  Total 270/day.  Don’t know if it is doing that but I think that is more in line with BEP than a minimum of 500 that you mentioned.

JE says:
07 Jul 2008  at  09:28 am | #

3.2 Million is not reachable unless they put some stripper poles in....ALot of resturants do not even to 1 milllion...(only the good ones)

R says:
07 Jul 2008  at  02:48 pm | #

I have been in that business all my life with my family, and the last 14 years as my Profession.

You are not taking in costs. Sure 8,800 a day would pay that much rent, but how long would he be able to stay in business when he , pays food cost, liquor cost, LABOR costs , linens, pest control, DISHES and glasswhere, forks sppons and knives etc etc.

At those numbers, unless he decides to pay for it out of pocket,he will not be in business for long.  Then who pays the loan?  The City.

Mortons, or Oceanaire for instance.  it is relative even though they are more expensive, would be blowing that number a day out of the park.

take a 1.00 Food cost is a percentage of that dollar. Liquor is a % of that dollar . Labor is a % of that dollar.  Electric and such is a % of that dollar.  You are already at 85+ % of that dollar right there. Food cost has skyrocketed since he signed that lease.

The most expensive thing in a restaurant?  An empty table.  he is open 11:00 am till 2:00 am.  He will not make it with a 170 people a day. Average that out too. Sunday night or Monday night is slower than Friday. 

It is not uncommon for a good dinner only restaurant to so 350-400 people, in an evening. Depending on size, and ability to turn it over.

Those numbers are too low for it to be viable. Whats the first thing he is going to do ? Cut hours.I am not sure he can under the lease. Second.  Not make rent payments, or negotiate something, third or go out of business or pay out of his pocket.

Then the city makes the payments.  The problem with this particular restaurant, is what joe public has experienced.  Read the reviews of the people.  I always take them with a grain of salt, but this one has alot of common complaints. Non of them would contribute to more people going there. Word of mouth about a restaurant is a powerful force.

Those numbers would put him on very shakey ground. already.

R says:
07 Jul 2008  at  03:09 pm | #

PS.  Less than 1/2 of one % even consider dessert for lunch.

remember, he is open 15 hours a day. Labor is the next cost. A restaurant bugets per hour . so if nobody is in there , a restaurant would start sending cooks hom ( average $ 9-12 $ an hours . dishwasher maybe 8-9 $ and hour.  they going to send everyone home, and stay open? 

They need to do ALOT more people . I am sure thought that the programing on the square would bring people. It’s a bad economy too.

Unless he does a dramatic turn-around, or pays out of his pocket, it’s trouble.

I will say this, that after the riots, he kept the other one, but he had a really good manager, and she went door to door, to get people to support it. She kept the guests happy.  Its a better restaurant than the one on the square. There are issues at the one on the square.

says:
07 Jul 2008  at  04:47 pm | #

Bearman says:
06 Jul 2008 at 11:28 pm | #

There was an Ohio Supreme Court decision a year or so ago that said the sunshine laws do not apply to a non-profit organization even when that non-profit is doing work paid for by the government.

But could the courts be changing… More recent Sixth Circuit court ruling seems to go another way than the SC of Ohio

If the Supreme Court found a hole in the law , then the legislature should address the issue immediately. If our friggin legislators would quit writing in exceptions for their friends, the laws would be better understood and respected.

In any case these people were given our money and those delegated by the people to handle our money should be the ones that we should demand accountability. If the elected people choose to protect these favorite people, the legislators should be charged with fraud and conspiracy. There is more than one law to skin these pigs.

says:
07 Jul 2008  at  04:54 pm | #

Why are you people trying to guess at the financial aspects of this restaurant. I don’t give a damn if they can make more than McDonald’s, the fact remains that the government supported on business and ignored thousands of other businesses. The government played favorites and that undermines the integrity of government and it undermines the confidence of the people. Stalin would have had them charged with crimes against the state and rightfully so. Our government is filled arrogant tyrants and I think we should think about what Jefferson said about these tyrants being manure for democracy.

R says:
07 Jul 2008  at  05:33 pm | #

Dieter- it just kind of evolved.  My original question was how did this organization 3cdc, become in charge of everything at the city expense?

so you can take just about everyone, from the city council, to the Business Community ( look at the board of 3cdc) and ask all of them the same question.

The did it to clear out OTR , and like any other city ( this is pretty big though on the scale) just decided to make it what they think it should be.

It’s not openly reported. So Joe Citizen doesnt know, unless he reads the Beacon, so it is.

But, Every little hole you can poke in it gives further information.  There is a body. At least the beacon is digging. Nobody, well 1 other is, but there are no laws being broken. That we KNOW .

“In any case these people were given our money and those delegated by the people to handle our money should be the ones that we should demand accountability. If the elected people choose to protect these favorite people, the legislators should be charged with fraud and conspiracy. There is more than one law to skin these pigs. “

I agree . Councilman Bortz was concerned about all the neighborhoods being represented seperately as their own, rather than the city as a whole?  Really?  I ‘d say that everything he wrote on the Beacon is full of it.  None of it will matter though, unless someone can find a violation of the law.  Even then… They got done what they set out to do.  Streetcar left to go. 200 million for a 3.4 miles streecar is for the good of the whole city?

The answer is to vote everyone of these people out, but another mountain to climb unless it is all exposed.  Whats really different? they are just following the road of those before them. I guess it makes them feel good about themselves. 

Ultimately , the City Council is responsible . This council is allowing Ohio TIF law to be “abused” at the expense , ultimately, of the Citizens.

says:
07 Jul 2008  at  05:34 pm | #

The broad term is “Moral Hazard”.  The city is creating a “Moral Hazard”.  No risk, then the model will become less efficient.  3CDC is insulated from risk. 

I pray for freedom. 

It is the only choice.

JE says:
07 Jul 2008  at  05:34 pm | #

Im with R on this one… I am in business as well and their expenses there are extrodinary and are not being figured in. The city of cincinnati is paying their rent. Dieterschmidt you should be very concerned about the profit they are not making! Not only did they pay to build the place but they are paying the rent they cannot pay on their own every month most likely (and if they aren’t the backpayments are all adding up) Which the city will probably forgive as some point just like they did for The Hyatt Regency Hotel that now is in the hole about 40 million dollars and climbing! Via Vite will be in a similar situation at some point and it will be front page news just like the Hyatt was! Just Watch! The Tax Payers are going to eat the bill on this!

JE says:
07 Jul 2008  at  06:06 pm | #

History Does Repeat Itself! Why do they keep making these bad deals?

The city of Cincinnati also is listed in the suit because it owns the land at the Hyatt site and is a limited owner in the hotel, according to a memo sent Thursday from City Manager Milton Dohoney to City Council and Mayor Mark Mallory.

The city secured a 16 percent interest in the hotel after the 1994 bankruptcy in exchange for forgiveness of past-due rent. At the time, officials estimated that the city’s losses were between $5 million and $6 million

JE says:
07 Jul 2008  at  06:22 pm | #

The reason the city ignored the other failing resturants Dietersm is because they all were privately owned and the city had no interest. The city hates the private market and were all for supporting this resturant because they teamed up with the public. The city is trying to find new revenvue strings through redlight camaras and private/public developments. The problem with this is they have no respect for the private market and have a bad business sense on who to team up! They want to take credit in some way for the downtown redevelopment instead of leaving it to the people in the private market who are sucessful and know what they are doing. Tell me one person at city hall that has experience with big business and real estate development outside city hall besides Bortz and Berding?? They are all clueless when it comes to “the art of the deal” They need to start doing what they are able to do instead of trying to take credit for every single thing that happens because of their huge ego problems. The city also has an extremely pitiful law department that they desperately need to kick to the curb! Rita Mcneil knew she stunk and removed herself, now they need to get rid of that Slimy Terry Nestor!

Anon says:
07 Jul 2008  at  10:53 pm | #

R - 40 years is not the TIF period and TIF has nothing to do with the Fountain Square project. Can you explain how it relates in your mind?

Pratically everyone else - How do we go from complaining that Via Vite got a sweet subsidized deal to now stating that there is no way they can afford to pay the rent on this sweet deal? That makes no sense whatsoever. Either it was a great deal for them or not… which is it?

JE says:
08 Jul 2008  at  01:11 am | #

Anon, They got a sweet subsidized deal for the fact the city would allow them to open in such a high profile location with the taxpayers money (secretly) But yes it was a very very bad deal that will never be able to support itself...(They spent way too much money in a bad economy with no downtown attendance) And Dieter is right… It really is unfair to places like the Masonette that happened to be a national icon and rated 5 stars and was the longest running 5 star resturant in America! (Not many cities can brag about that) and was so well known to people outside of Cincinnati. Outsiders cannot believe that place closed and are always disappointed when they come to town thinking they are going to get to eat there. The money would have been much more well spent to try to save a gem like that! (Probably wouldnt have had to spend as much either) The City just not have any business sense and neither does the highly egotistical 3cdc. Stay On Thier Ass Dean! Find the bodies!

R says:
08 Jul 2008  at  01:24 am | #

Annon,

was speaking in general.  it can be 10 , 15, 40 doesnt really matter.

The issue was below market rate rent.The other issue was that the fact that the city was responsible for the repayment of the loan. Everyone tried to hide it ..  WHY ?
Unfortunately, you guys are not doing your job in getting people downtown ( I know there is hope in your minds for the Dabblers) and you picked the wrong restaurant.  As I said, I understand why, but you might as well built a Ferris Wheel, it would have brought more people downtown.  Done right , it would be a very sweet deal, but the point of this is that when they start skipping rent payments, the city is responsible to pay the landlord. When a restaurant is in trouble the first thing they will do, is start missing or trying to re negotiate. 5/3 pays the missed payment and bills the city, not you guys. We were discussing, in spite of your claims that 1,000’s and 1,000’s of new people were downtown every night, this place, is in trouble, and that means, the city would pay. 

Come on, you are a creative guy, can you really not see what the issue is in getting people down there? Why can everyone see it except for the person that is supposed to?  Because of your arrogance.

The other point is, this is why people leave Cincinnati in Droves.  It amazes me that you people dont get it.  Just dont have a clue.  You know, some people actually care for the city.  So, instead of worrying about what we say here about you, go do your job.  You get the cut out for the handicap spaces yet???  NO

We will discuss my issue when I see you next.

TIF’s.  someone else if going to explain it to you. You have people so far up you _____ and you dont even know it.  I will send you a copy when it is printed. Your shield is not as strong as you think it is.

I got a bunch of papers today from the city.  Next time I see you, we are going to have a “discussion.” Then there will be one of 2 ways it will go.  It will be your choice.

In the meantime, go do your job.

R says:
08 Jul 2008  at  01:39 am | #

Scott - Amen

You right JE. There is NO WAY that restaurant can survive on that level of business REGARDLESS of the below market rent.  In the lease, a payment is missed, 5/3 makes the payment, and the CITY has to pay it back to the Landlord. Not 3cdc.

It is amazing isn’t it? One bad deal after another. They let the longest running Mobile 5 star restaurant in the world, go out.

They spend a million Dollars to send invitations to 40,000 Dabblers, to come to the city and eat at , I hope the new, hip, happening Fountain square restaurant, and incentive is ... free parking in the garage.  wow, I can hear the stampede now. Cost 1 million dollars.  right.. how much is a stamp?  City funds. If the Mayor, respectfully, has lived here all his life, and he just heard at a gas station in the burbs why people dont come downtown, then someone is out of touch.  I have heard it for years.

They are going to build a street car for 200 million dollars.  Unless they have 4 cars running at the same time, you could walk the route faster.  We have these things called feet that we use to walk from OTR to say the square.  Takes 7 minutes.  Another disaster in the making.

why do they keep doing this?  I dont know.  I cant remember it being any different.

But this is why people leave. And will keep leaving. Recount the census however you want, all one has to do is look around.  Look at rents, dropping.  look at all the ads for property for rent.  amazing.

Anon says:
08 Jul 2008  at  12:02 pm | #

If you look at the time line of events in Cincinnati during the last decade and compare it to what Naomi Klein describes in her book “The Shock Doctrine” you cannot miss the truth. The privitization of Fountain Square and Garage revenue, building Via Vite, gentrification of OTR, Banks, Streetcar, on and on and on, has to do with Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Greed. The plan is outlined, clear and has been used successfully around the globe by thieves in three piece suits to privatize resources and enslave the people.

”Only a crisis-actual or perceived-produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are laying around.” Milton Freidman, godfather of the modern market.

From the engineered riots in 2001 to the police slowdown that followed, was all designed to accomplish what has been the largest transfer of wealth in Cincinnati’s history and it is not over yet.

The conspirators, many identified by Dan Labotz, in collusion with our elected representatives are stealing public resources with impunity and this must stop. It may take some drastic measures to bring about this change but the committed people of the community can accomplish this and more when they have good information. The Beacon has been the lone voice in the City that has continued to persue the truth. Keep up the good work because the light is shining and the weasels that meet under cover of darkness are getting exposed. Soon you will see the “Big Shots” leaving the board of 3CDC (just like Chiquita) and Leeper will take a leap or go to prison. Fraud cannot exist in the light.

says:
08 Jul 2008  at  01:45 pm | #

Anon:

While Friedman went to school in Chicago, he is better associated with the Austrian school of economics. 

The above rant sure puts you in line as a Ron Paul supporter, but for some reason I seem to recall you being critical of Ron Paul.

My apologies, if I am wrong.

There is no conspiracy.  Just people thinking that they are smarter than they actually are, trying to beat the marketplace in hopes of making things better for people.  Which we all know is impossible. 

If you lead thirsty people to a dry well, you may have pure intentions, but you are not helping people.

Choose freedom.  That is the message, not power.

JE says:
08 Jul 2008  at  02:18 pm | #

Anon, So you suggest the riots were one big scheme?

JE says:
08 Jul 2008  at  03:34 pm | #

I dont think it was a conspiracy anon like you suggest. I do however want to give something for everyone to think about. If you were to ask any city official or 3cdc member why they are doing what they are doing, their answer would be most likely to make Cincinnati a World Class City that people want to move to and visit as well. Well the way city hall and the 3cdc operate they are keeping alot of “outsiders” from coming to Cincinnati. We do have a beautiful city full of potential but the city and 3cdc are not making our city very “business or shall we say developer friendly”
To get a business started in any part of cincinnati right now you really do have to go through a TON of RED TAPE AND Government and Community Council Scrutiny! It almost makes it not worth opening a business or building a new building in Cincinnati unless you are in with the 3cdc or know all of the city council memebers personally. “Outsiders are not Welcome to the business community” Since their ideas are better!

says:
08 Jul 2008  at  04:50 pm | #

Do the city officials ever claim to be striving to be a world class city. I would love to be present when one or anyone would make such a claim and not be able to hang up the phone. I can’t even imagine this city being a contender for world class. I have probably paid more attention to the direction this city is going over the last ten years than I ever did in the past. It is extremely disappointing to see people run for council then get elected and then become clones of what we had hoped to get rid of.

I would like to hear some radical ideas of what would save this city if we could have an ideal dictator or king. For instance, what if we were to dissolve the city and start anew with the option of going it alone or maybe starting a metro type government where the powers of government would be severely restricted to the point that if a few people objected, then the issue would go to a general vote.

Or instead of having an election every two years , we could have a lottery for the offices and it would be like community service to be on council for only one term; would we be any worse off that what we are doing now?  When you think about it, what , if any, special qualifications do the present members of council bring to the table? The only thing they have is the ability to raise some money and run for office. There are many citizens out there that are far more qualified but would stoop so low as to perform in our election circus.

What about eliminating the building department? I understand many counties in Ohio have no building department and they do just fine.

How about a volunteer fire department; there are volunteer fire departments that actually have a better insurance rating than Cincinnati.

Eliminate conditional immunity so government workers including police can be sued; they would be provided with an insurance policy for free but when they beat up old ladies and get sued, they would have to pay the additional premium the insurance company would require because of bad history - or they can quit.

Have the Greater Cincinnati Water Works start paying into the general fund and make more of a profit from water sales outside the city. The city bought and paid for the water works years ago and we should be getting water for half of what the outside communities pay.

Have a Cincinnati city-owned brewery where all citizens get free beer and because beer isn’t being sold, we wouldn’t have to have a liquor license to have community social clubs or public houses on every other block where those in the community can meet.

Any ideas?

R says:
08 Jul 2008  at  04:52 pm | #

# 31 I actually agree with you partially. .  I do not see that as a rant at all. I have not read the book or followed any of the Doctrine, but I know what I saw , and what you posted is what I have been saying for years.

JE - Yes, It sure as heck was.  I was lucky enough to have a ring side seat on my fire escape as the whole thing began the next day. I will share what I saw.

I saw Vans, loaded with young, poor misguided black youths, in ski-masks and radios, being droped off strategically at different points on main street. The vans, who’s drivers held walkie talkies would speed off and the youngsters started smashing windows, try to grab people at stoplights etc etc. The vans reappeared, slide to a stop , and you could hear the guy yelling, lets go lets go.  They take off and 2 minutes later here come the police, on horseback and they were about 2 minutes behind. The van KNEW they were comming.  I watched this happen all day. I watched a guy stand on the corner, with a ski mask on, and direct the kids what to do. They were always 2 minutes ahead of the police. Scanners?  I watch a car drop off a guy who went up on the roof of a building , and was firing at cars.  A car would scretch to a stop and the guy would jump off, and here would come the police.

Being that I knew most of the people in the neighborhood , non of them participated in this. One kid across the street that I knew started to help try to pull these 2 girls out of the car at main and 14th. I yelled at him NO , and he looked back and then continued. I pointed my gun at him and yelled NO again, and fired a shot into the air. He backed off, and finally the girls got it and decided to hit the gas. The others took off.  That kid was the ONLY one in 3 days that I knew was from the neighborhood. The rest, were not from here. I knew just about everyone. They were all inside.

Remember the James Brown Rally on Central Parkway?  Alot of people were gathered. At first it was relatively calm. I was watching and you would see these 25’ish “grunge “ looking white guys standing at central and main, central and vine.  This peaked my interests, so I watched the main street guy.  Young blacks were coming up to this guy, and he was giving them directions. They would go off, others would come , he would whisper to them, and off they went. This continued. He was giving these people directions. I went up and asked who he was, he ignored me.  I kept asking him, and he quickly slipped off into the crowd.  Things were semi calm, until James Brown arrived, and then it started. Almost on cue.  Needless to say, anyone that was there, knew James Brown was there about 8 minutes before he had to go, as they were pelting the stage and the car with rocks and anything else.  again, it was like someone said “action”.

I said for years, somebody was directing this show. It was crystal clear. Someone recently gave me the Bronson Book about the riots. Someone in there, forget who, said “ I took a look at these people and knew they were not from here”. Wasn’t the bean bag lady from Louisville?  It was too highly organized , and it was very clear to everyone who saw it.

Who? I dont know.  But these young white guys were CLEARLY giving directions at the James Brown rally. The kids who were hitting mainstreet had radios. they had drivers. That was not some spontaneous action of an angry mob.  It was directed. Neon’s set up a “kitchen” on their patio, to cook for the police and troopers, and just to provide a “rest zone”.  One of the officers told me.  “ You know what the first thing they hit? “ “ The pawn shops on Vine. “ He said they took 100’s and 100’s of guns. One officer estimated over a 1,000 guns where in just one of those pawn shops.  The shootings that followed in the year after the riots sure give that alot of weight.

So, I dont know who, why, and can’t even fathom the idea that the city or business leaders would start or encourage a riot. They lost alot too. It would be hard, for instance for Kroger to recruit employee’s to Cincinnati, or even retain people . So I disagree that they were involved in that at all. I think we all know who, with help, was behind the riot part.

That being said I can certainly see the city , business community etc etc, taking the end result and using it to gentrify OTR, and downtown, and turning it into what they want it to be.  Using a 3cdc type organization with Mr Leeper as the shield, answerable to nobody ( that we know ) would be /is the ideal way to do it.

I have said this alot, but one more time.  Out of 3cdc LLC, Fountain Square Management Group ( which by the way was listed with the SEC in 1994 as wholly owned by 5/3 Bank consisting of a parking garage and property around their Building ) it is OTR holdings that is the only thing that has anything tangible ( buildings and property) which could be sold, bought, transfered given away ,whatever.  Private property.  They wouldnt buy any buildings with people in them? hmmmmmm , to me, that says alot, and creates alot of different possiblities.  Follow the money, or other “valuables” and you will find the answers.  As the Dean said, one body is enough..  Pulling teeth to get information is another clue.  Follow the money and the property. That is where the answers are.

Anon says:
08 Jul 2008  at  05:35 pm | #

Maybe the answer is in a class action law suit. I do not say this lightly because win, lose or draw the discovery process would be most enlightening. I think the board and management of 3CDC would enjoy discussing their actions under oath. Until we have an informed population we will continue to get empty gestures from our politicians about economic/real estate development, job creation, oversight and many other issues too numerous to mention. As long as Ruppert Buchanan runs the daily disappointment and King Carl ain’t dead yet we can count on more of the same drivel and we will continue to decline.

Who is Ron Paul?

R says:
08 Jul 2008  at  05:37 pm | #

JE- You got that right.  On one hand, they encourage it , spending money to attract, but on the other, they do everything possible to have it not be.

Why they do not understand that, and that people all over hear it.  They go thru all this stuff to promote it, but the very system they use drives it away.

The Genius ( no , not the one in the picture of this article) that gets how simple it would really be to attract investments, business, jobs, taxes REVENUE , would rise to the top.  It boggles the mind that the city does not understand this.

To me, it says they are in it for themselves.  Quite frankly, if it is noteriety they want, instead of all the hoops ( many just outrageous) maybe a prospective business could buy little plaques with thier names on it, and put them on bus benches. Seems that legacy is what drives that bus, so it’s fitting.

You dont attract business by not being business friendly.  It is a simple concept. Go to Newport or Covington, they would love to have you.

JE says:
08 Jul 2008  at  09:26 pm | #

Thankyou R… Newport and Covington know how to get it done! They know a deal when they see one and are always looking for ways to take it to the next level. They do not hold people out, but instead have the attitude. “How can we make this happen for your business and is there anything we can do to help you achieve it?” That is what serving the public is suppose to be all about! Not inflating your own ego and controlling all of the power to keep people from moving forward on their business goals at your will. How can an average person break through these walls of Bueracracy and achieve their dreams in Cincinnati??? There is simply no chance for them unless they are in the “in crowd” of the business climate in Cincinnati. Imagine how hard it is for a new businessman to come in town that has no connections! Im sure there are alot of people from the outside that wanted to do something here but then changed their minds when they started to deal with the people in charge of the infrastructure here. That is the question we ALL must start asking on this website… How can we break these walls down so everyone that wants to have a chance to make a difference in this city has a chance and not just the people that like to think they are the corporate “elite” or Bill Donobinidiot genius that have no proven track records to back it up. Its time to break down the redtape in this city! The Dean is just the guy that can make it happen! I have faith in that for some reason even though I have never met him.

says:
08 Jul 2008  at  11:06 pm | #

JE:

I do not want to offend, but since when do cities “know a deal when they see one”?

Anything they do to help the business owner is coming out of our pockets. 

Remember, freedom is the message, not power.

R says:
09 Jul 2008  at  08:35 am | #

JE I have never in my life seen cities such as Covington and Newport, bending over backwards trying to get me to do something there. They want your business. When I proposed something in Covington, the same thing Boy Genius of the Square, purposely and with intent, screwed over, I had just about every City offical call me asking what can we do to make it happen. One official asked for a meeting, and I explained that I was waiting for a part for my car, offered to come get me himself.  EVERY official is easily reached, in the office or at home and they are thankful to discuss it at any time.  They make it very clear in both cities, that they want your business.  The all just laugh when you tell them Cincinnati stories in regard to the same efforts.  They dont need redlight cameras to generate revenue, They are not crazy enough to put a 200 million streetcar to nowhere.  It doesnt cost 250 to get a permit to install a toliet.  Diffrent world.  I went to a “ council meeting” in Newport, and you know what?  They actually LISTEN to what the citizens have to say about issues of interest.  WOW. They have economic developement departments that are not run by people from Pittsburg, and are pretty much open to any idea.

If Bill did what he did there, he would have been fired on the spot, you can look at any record you want to see, they actually know where they are, and will gather any information that you need.  Then tell you sincerly, thank you, and have a nice day, call us if you need anything, and give you their home numbers.  WOW.  I know tons of people who have tried or proposed things in Cincinnati only to get no response.

It is a shame.  I love the city of Cincinnati.  Going all the way back to the Big red machine, the zoo, opening of Kings Island.

It’s pretty bad when the newspaper doesn’t follow the ethic rules that dean has posted many times, and ask the questions that need to be asked, and answered.  Of course, being that the big cheese is on the board, we couldnt have any nastiness reported could we.?

Just think, If it were not for the Beacon, alot of stuff would not even be talked about at all.  I wonder if someone in a Wheelchair, got run over by a car in Fountain Square garage, would the paper report it?

I had dinner with my girlfriend’s parents last week. Good, hardworking , Catholic people, who have lived in the same house for a long time pay their taxes, raised their kids, and as they knew about my experience with the city, or more specifically, the person who’s photo graces this article, we began to talk about the city.  1/2 the council was proabably not even born yet, when they started building their lives.  Good decent, kind people, and the Dad had nothing but scorn for the leadership of this city. He is not the type to be filled with scorn.  He mentioned everything, from what it took to trim a tree limb in his tree limb in his yard, to work that he donates to the church and those in need because he cares about his community.  He told me everyone he knows ( and they run in good circles) all felt the same way.  He , and now I could have talked about it for hours.  I know many others like that.  I can’t imagine for instance, being on the Council, and know that a large portion of those who live in this city, feel the same way.  People who were not even born, or were very young when they began their lives in this city, have no respect for these people.  They ALL know the games, the deals, the blatant disregard for the actual citizens they supposedly represent.  I imagine have seen some degree of this in other cities, but nothing like here.They are not like because they are bitter in life, or anything like that, they are just sick and tired of the games.  The sad part is that it is probably most likely that the city could give a dam.  I know the 2 times I went to the council meeting and people we speaking, there was not one memeber of that council who was listening to anyone, It was bothersome to them.

The Dean wrote a great article which contained a response to his questions regarding Councilman Bortz’s postion on PR. I hope everyone read it.  I posted that I could see the pro’s of it, but when Bortz said something like ‘if we did district representation, than the council would focus on Neighborhood, rather than the city as a whole.  God forbide you listen to the citizens of the city. In the “district you represent.  I mentioned that it might just make them more acountable. It has good points and of course especially now, with everything going on, PR would be a good thing to help everyone be represented.  hopefully.

As to what to do, well, we can keep looking, Beacon can still keep shining the light, I am going to sue The genius of Fountain Square, as he is not man enough to just say say “ I am sorry”.  I imagine MEP is working off a big list, I have someone that is having a blast looking at all the Follies, and hopefully she will write about the joys of living here, and the whacky stuff that is going on. . Then, I dont know.  Maybe we can get lawn chairs and watch the empty street cars go round and round, walk down to the garage and help handicap people over the curb, and watch anxiously for the million dollar Dabblers using their real incentive coupon ( cost 1 million dollars) . Start a pool as to when the Restaurant closes.  Make up catchy sloagans like “ Cincinnati.... Not as dangerous as you think” or, Our Gangsta’s shope at Brooks Bothers, how bad can they be ? “ Yell at council meetings only to hear one of them say “ do you hear something?  sounded like a voice. ‘ Help the Mayor write a book Titled “ The Cincinnati Censous-New math Handbook - 35 minus 30 is really 250 “.

we could help sell condo’s in the Gateway.  Tuesday’s could be half off studio night.  By the way, my OTR bellweather economic loft used to measure the housing market, has dropped in rent from 1575.00 to 900 dollars in he last 6 months.  No takers.  Its a shame , as it is actually a good one.

Help Bill program Fountain square with things he finds on MSN Homepage.. he could give Lunctime speaches about civil rights, and hold a cermony like the one he wrote for the opening of the square. 

Or, A very smart young lady looking for a Publishers clearing
house prize ( something like that : ) might have something interesting to say.

The possibilities are endless.

I am sure that the lights are buring at the Beacon, There is a big kist to chose from.  They have done a great job doing what the “ real “ paper should be doing, but you know, Gannents code of ethics are just some words written by a reporter who is not allowed to cover anything that is not spelled FLUFF .  I heard they were going to rename it to the Bid cage,, or something like that.

I bet though, the Dean, Justin or MEP can get Mr Bortz to call one of them an Embiseal again…

I wonder if I can get a lunch reservation at the cities restaurants for lunch today.  I hear they are packed.. 2 year waiting list. I think they should change the name though.  How about Luna Si ?

Anon says:
09 Jul 2008  at  11:04 am | #

JE,
“The city is trying to find new revenvue strings through redlight camaras and private/public developments.”

This could be expressed “the city is trying to replace lost revenue streams(given away to corporate masters) by installing red light cameras and more sweetheart deals for their contributors”

Either you are deluded or still asleep. This may be just a coincidence that the template outlined by Klein matches evolution of corporate takeover in Cincinnati but I doubt it. The puzzle pieces fit together too well. This is not ineptitude, it is organized crime.

JE says:
09 Jul 2008  at  11:40 am | #

Ryan “THey know a deal when they see one” Newport,Covington,Bellevue,Dayton Ky all know what is going to work and get people excited. Yes they do have alot of money to give away on projects they think will be good for the area as well.(cincinnati takes out loans and northern ky uses the federal money that has been approved, big difference there) Ryan most every big real estate development is usually subsidized in some way. (sometimes its the parking garage, or something else) Cities do need to be deal makers to move forward and my point was northern ky knows better where to spend that money they have to throw arround. Northern Ky would never spend that much money to pay for someones resturant! The governments job should be to strictly help out with infrastructure issues that will make the project better for the public.

Anon says:
09 Jul 2008  at  01:14 pm | #

Anon

I am against the way they are trying to find new revenue strings like red light camaras/trolley cars and sneaky private/public partnerships (and taking out loans that cannot be supported) that noone even knows about.. How am I being delusional?

R says:
09 Jul 2008  at  01:32 pm | #

Well, on one hand, who would be better at creating, I call them shell non-profits than half the board of 3cdc. I.E Kroger, P & G, Great American. It is most definately a very very gray area, but these are public companies , and to do some sort of crime, let alone organized, I doubt it. They have too much to lose, and I dont think Mr Lafely or Mr Linder, for instance would inclined to particpate in an organized crime.  Mr Leeper.  well.........

we will find out about the real properties. If there is anything , it will be there.

I imagine P&G and Mr Linder, just got sick of the people ultimately responsible, the gang of 9, not fixing the problem. those who get off holding rule over the masses same gang, are certainly answerable to the people who get them elected.

Besides not fixing the garage, or the trail to nowhere, really, it now comes time to watch the real estate transactions.  This is where the money is.  Would there be opporunity there for monkey business?  You bet !!!  Alot of eyes watching that show.

I do believe the riots were organized. no question. But not by the city. Certainly not by Fortune 500 companies.  You know who.  The one who said give me _____ and I will make it stop. That was right out of the Rev Al and Rev playbook.

The fact though, is that it is proven that the city lied about the restaurant.  if there is 1 lie, there are others.

JE says:
09 Jul 2008  at  01:36 pm | #

R…

You are on the right page keep writing! You have some very interesting material! R,, How are the new condos selling lately that they are building so many of? Just wondering out of curiousity since you happen to live there. I love loft condos but my biggest worry is what is going to happen if they build too many of them. There are just way too many condos being built in the downtown and northern ky area right now. (which are very pricy) Do we have the demand to fill them all or is the market going to tank like Vegas and all of the other cities that did the same thing? It actually might be a good thing if the market did tank since the prices are so high to begin with.

R says:
09 Jul 2008  at  01:52 pm | #

I had an interesting observation today. I was downtown ( very few people on the street or square, but, where are they going to put these streetcars?  close off streets?

I know the streets, but I mean size wise. the streets are not very wide.

They REALLY want a chance of opening up downtown, build light rail from the burbs in.  That would cost more, but if the County and the city, go together Feds will pay for it ( I know city doesnt want to have FED oversite on the street cars, cant steal the money that way), or a big chunk. with gas prices , it would probably will be well recieved and have good ridership, as the gas problem isnt going away.  Be a SMART investment to the county and the city.  Beats throwing 200 million in the 600 year old sewars.

JE E-mail the Dean or MEP and ask them to give you my e-mail.  I want to ask you something. Off camera

JE says:
09 Jul 2008  at  01:53 pm | #

Anon,

That was the first time I have heard the story of the riots from someone who actually saw them take place (R)Anon I need to read the book you are talking about.. I have thought all along the riots were being overplayed as being bigger then they really were by the media. But the question is who was really behind them? I havent really figured that out and wouldnt it be great if someone could pin the people down with evidence and hold them accountable for it? Our city has suffered so much from that and just like we have discovered it was Bin Laden who was responsible for 911, how could we put a finger on who it was that staged the riots if that really was the case???

says:
09 Jul 2008  at  03:09 pm | #

JE!

What in the heck are you talking about?

There was no conspiracy to cause the so-called riot in Cincinnati. When you thought the riot was overplayed, you were right. If there was any conspiracy, it would have been the Cincinnati Police Department, which had its men standing around watching a bunch of kids get a free ride to a good time breaking windows and looting instead of apprehending immediately upon seeing crime. But maybe the boys in blue were scared, but I think the police leaders just needed the propaganda.

And if you are looking to blame someone, just look at the general Cincinnati population.

Dieter Schmied

JE says:
09 Jul 2008  at  03:40 pm | #

R.

I agree the lightrail is the way to go and would recieve more public support. The street cars are just a joke and anyone that is excited about them is probably out of shape and can’t walk more then 2 blocks to get where they want to go downtown. We are afterall voted one of the fattest cities in America werent we? When are we going to finish the Subway we started????? LOL

JE says:
09 Jul 2008  at  03:51 pm | #

Bill Donabedian quotes

“We met our goal. We did about 50,000 over the three days. I thought we might come up a little short, but we had a killer Saturday. I could not believe how packed Main Street was. It’s exciting. I was really pleased.”
Bill Donabedian quotes


Add to Chapter…



See also
Quotes about: Thought.
Quotes with: come up, days, goal, met, The three, thought, three.
Bill Donabedian said: “We met our goal. We did about 50,000 over the...” and:
“When it’s all over and you see crowds like we had this year, you say, ‘Not only will we be back, but we’ve got to figure out how to make it even better’.”
Bill Donabedian quotes


Add to Chapter…


“The shuttle was an absolute disaster.”
Bill Donabedian quotes


Add to Chapter…


“We’re on track to hit our goal of 50,000 people.”
Bill Donabedian quotes


Add to Chapter…


“We are getting more submissions so, on the law of averages, we are going to end up with higher quality bands. Those who didn’t submit in the past now know this isn’t some rinky-dink festival.”
Bill Donabedian quotes


Add to Chapter…


“Every marketing person will tell you that you can’t be everything to everyone. But with Fountain Square, you kind of have to be.”

R says:
09 Jul 2008  at  04:25 pm | #

initials D.L mean anything?  He was the figure head, but not smart enough to do it himself. He got a nice check from the city though.

JE says:
09 Jul 2008  at  05:09 pm | #

Dieter Im not the one that suggested in was a conspiracy it was anon… Im looking for some facts from him… I even said up above that I didnt think it was either Heres what I said…

“I dont think it was a conspiracy anon like you suggest. I do however want to give something for everyone to think about. If you were to ask any city official or 3cdc member why they are doing what they are doing, their answer would be most likely to make Cincinnati a World Class City that people want to move to and visit as well. Well the way city hall and the 3cdc operate they are keeping alot of “outsiders” from coming to Cincinnati. We do have a beautiful city full of potential but the city and 3cdc are not making our city very “business or shall we say developer friendly”

Here is what anon claims
If you look at the time line of events in Cincinnati during the last decade and compare it to what Naomi Klein describes in her book “The Shock Doctrine” you cannot miss the truth. The privitization of Fountain Square and Garage revenue, building Via Vite, gentrification of OTR, Banks, Streetcar, on and on and on, has to do with Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Greed. The plan is outlined, clear and has been used successfully around the globe by thieves in three piece suits to privatize resources and enslave the people.

”Only a crisis-actual or perceived-produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are laying around.” Milton Freidman, godfather of the modern market.

From the engineered riots in 2001 to the police slowdown that followed, was all designed to accomplish what has been the largest transfer of wealth in Cincinnati’s history and it is not over yet.

The conspirators, many identified by Dan Labotz, in collusion with our elected representatives are stealing public resources with impunity and this must stop. It may take some drastic measures to bring about this change but the committed people of the community can accomplish this and more when they have good information. The Beacon has been the lone voice in the City that has continued to persue the truth. Keep up the good work because the light is shining and the weasels that meet under cover of darkness are getting exposed. Soon you will see the “Big Shots” leaving the board of 3CDC (just like Chiquita) and Leeper will take a leap or go to prison. Fraud cannot exist in the light.

R says:
10 Jul 2008  at  08:26 am | #

I had just read the Bronson book on the riots.  It is pretty spot on, but he did leave out some stuff. I doubt on purpose.

The council meeting was not a scheduled thing, and that was probably the only thing that happened naturally.  It also could have been stopped right there, but Cranley, was scared and ctying, and tarbell basically had to tell him what to do.  Jim Tarbell, was very well respected in OTR. The people trusted him.

I left out one part of my story about what I saw, and that was Jim Tarbell, riding his bike down the middle of Mainstreet at zero hour, urging people to go home.  I could see a white guy in a hat and black suit ridding his bike down the middle of the street, in the middle of a riot, like you see in the movies, bullets flying all around and the general just standing up while everyone else is taking cover.  He would stop and urge the loacls involved to go inside. They listened to him and did.That council meeting fueld it. It could have been stopped right there, except Cranley was in over his head.

at Timmy’s funeral, with The Gov their, Bronson writes that a group was crowding around them and 6 black ministers had surrounded Luken to protect him from the angry mob, that blocked their exit.  Tarbell walked right thru them, and they spread and let him thru.

The other thing was, the paper, thru the Police under the bus with their coverage.  Just F- them.  Many a great police officer had the careers placed in Jepordy, and had 10,000’s of dollars in legal fee’s, because the city thru them under the bus.  That was WRONG.

so, there was no question of a slowdown, as many officers said, “ why should we go in and stop this_______ as they were willing to put their lives in Danger, it was the habbit of throwing them under the bus to appease people who were BREAKING THE LAW . So, they had a slow down.

I have always said, that I had the highest regard for the officers that were on the street during the riots. They did an amazing job ( when they finally aloud them to do it) . To this day, and I have seen riots in other cities, these men and woman did a fantastic job. They saved alot of lives of innocent people.  You dont hear much about that part.  But it is true. I personally saw it time and time again.

says:
10 Jul 2008  at  12:15 pm | #

JE!

Thanks for the response (53). I had to respond rather than let that disturbance many call a riot to be enlarged any more than it has been. It has become an excuse for the failures in this city.

What I really appreciated was what you wrote about the exploitation of this city by those who lurk behind the scenes. Even then, I don’t believe the conspiracy starts until after a crisis. Incompetent Cincinnati leaders, unfortunately are able to provide continuous crisis and the exploiters only have to wait for a crisis to occur and then move in for a kill. Friedman’s quote is fitting.

I didn’t know Dan Labotz but I looked up a few things that he has written. I thank you also for making his name known to me. I don’t know his philosophy but I think he writes well and his ideas seem more than plausible. Do you have any info on his bio?

JE says:
10 Jul 2008  at  03:33 pm | #

Dieter,

Anon was the one who brought him up.. I am quite interested to read the book as well, since I have never heard of it before.(Im not going to rule it out) And I think R is right as well that D.L. was just a figure head and there was for sure more people involved that we never knew about. (Never let possibilities be overlooked) Yes Im tired of the riot excuse as well, but do we really know the “true story?” I had never heard about the way the riots were conducted until R’s post #31.. 3cdc has had to partner in with the city because of the financial difficulties the city has claimed to have because of the “economic downturn” Which I think is a lie itself.
(The city had plenty of money, they just got tired of the Pettis Browns and everyone else asking for it)

says:
10 Jul 2008  at  03:52 pm | #

R!

Could you clarify your statement:

The other thing was, the paper, thru the Police under the bus with their coverage.  Just F- them.  Many a great police officer had the careers placed in Jepordy, and had 10,000’s of dollars in legal fee’s, because the city thru them under the bus.  That was WRONG.

What are you referring to when you say they ???? through the police under the bus?

Dieter Schmied

JE says:
10 Jul 2008  at  04:25 pm | #

I meant to say the city Has not Had plenty of money.

K says:
10 Jul 2008  at  08:21 pm | #

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080710/NEWS01/807100317/1168/NEWS

JE says:
10 Jul 2008  at  09:55 pm | #

We can only hope the statistics are accurate, I want to see Cincinnati do well. I just want it to be a place where there is an opportunity for everyone that has the guts to do something in this city.

R says:
11 Jul 2008  at  08:15 am | #

The Mayor, the council the press.  No matter what they did ( the bean bag thing was that a goupf of criminals, were blocking Govenor Tafts motorcade from leaving Poor Timmy’s funeral. The police felt A , it was wrong for the gov to be there, as his speech and just being there ligitimized the word “ riots” when in facts it was a bunch of criminals dressed up like a riots. The shotgun 6 they called them, all highly decorated officers, were to clear the way out. and they were told to clear the road by any means needed.  They were afraid the Gov was going to get hurt, so they used the nean bag, and it just so happened that a reporter was right there, and it was another example of ‘ rougue muserous cops on the loose, when in fact they were ordered to clear it bt any means.  The chose the least lethel, and all 6 cops, on orders of Luken had to go to Federal trial. cost them 100’s of thousands of dollars ( were found not guilty but that a long story I will write later, but it was then that the police said “ why should we do anything? They are just going to make it look like we are rougue and bring charges against us”, which the city did , wronglt.  Thats where they slowdown started.  Cincincinnati lost alot of very good, highly respected officers, and they were put up as a scarifice to the “rioters” criminals by the mayor and council.  They were under federal charges at the mayors say so, inspite of being ordered by him to get the Gov out of there.  It was at that point the police knew they were going to be made the scapegoat.  It is quite sad.  These 6 police officers were the finest the city had, honest hardworking, and the city, thru the press blammed them for it all. They were under serious federal charges.. all bogus, to appease the “rioters” based on the order of the mayor.  These guys almost went to jail, because they were protecting the govenor.  attorney fee’s and reputations were gone in a second based on no truth of fact.

Yes DL was the “ figurehead” but he wasn’t smart enough.  Someone organized it, and used him.  alot of money changed hands.

3cdc was the chines wall between the city, and the gentrification of OTR.

says:
11 Jul 2008  at  05:33 pm | #

I still love that picture of Bill. It’s genius!

JE says:
11 Jul 2008  at  07:21 pm | #

B.D. Is Going to Have the beer flowing freely at the obama event monday! Its About Time LOL

R says:
15 Jul 2008  at  02:56 pm | #

Dieter,

I will explain shortly.  It is an important part to the whole mess.

It will take a little time, but I will show examples.

Yeah I love the picture too. It is so fitting.

says:
15 Jul 2008  at  05:06 pm | #

R!

I think that I am getting the picture.

I have a suggestion and a question about what you wrote in # 63 above.

Suggestion: Read what you are submitting prior to submitting it. It is as hard to follow your words as I have when I try to follow a foreign language. And try to avoid sarcasm when you are trying to be vague.

My question is who is/are “they” when you are speaking of the “shotgun 6”; who gave these orders? It sounds , at one point, that it was Luken.

The problems that the “six” had seems to caused by our over expensive and complex legal system that fails too many of our fellow citizens . The more I hear about our legal system and the more that I see of our legal system the more that I think it needs to be put out of existence. I am seeing more and more that people have to make decisions between hiring lawyer and paying medical bills, insurance, education and those thinks that make up our quality of life.  And there are too many of us that sit around and see what is happening to our fellow citizens at the hands of our government and we do nothing sometimes because we can do nothing legally.

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