Hot News!
• Tea Party leader gets grilled by NAACP membership
On today's date in The Beacon archives, we published:
•Smitherman still saying the issue is about a “streetcar” (2009)•More on Amy Goodman’s Arrest and the Struggle for a Free Media (2008)
•Journalist Amy Goodman Unlawfully Arrested At RNC (2008)
•Seizing Illegal Guns—Thinking About 2% (2007)
•Information or Advertisements? (2007)
•Nick Lachey: “I have never supported George W. Bush.” (2007)
Contact Us
v mail: (513) 685-0678
e mail: click here
Thursday, June 19, 2008
Still no handicapped accessibility at Mr. Clean’s Fountain Square Garage
Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
Sound familiar? We broke this story last year—and it got picked up by WLWT. Even Hamilton County Commission President Todd Portune weighed in on the injustice of it all. Check out our archive!
The sad truth is that the cost would not be so prohibitive that 3CDC could not afford to make the garage handicapped accessible. I mean, with the sweetheart deal they got on the Via Vite restaurant—leasing the property from the City for $100 monthly while getting over $5,000 monthly—well, that alone should be able to make some wheelchair accessible curbs.
Hey 3CDC! What’s taking you so long?
• Share This Article! | Listen to this article |
|  |
Register
Anonymous comments are allowed, but you can create an account above to stamp your name and to avoid typing the anti-spam code.
If you are not familiar with our rules for leaving comments, click here! The Cincinnati Beacon is not responsible for the contents of any comments. Comments do not represent the views of the moderators of The Cincinnati Beacon.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5 License.
19 Jun 2008 at 09:36 am | #
You can’t put a curb cut that close to a door. Before you make an a** of yourself again, get a professional to explain building code and ADA code and you will find the renovation of the 40-year old garage meets ALL requirements.
19 Jun 2008 at 10:55 am | #
OK genius, then all they need to do is keep all handicapped spots on the same side as the cut curb—as we explained in the video, too.
19 Jun 2008 at 11:03 am | #
BTW, since you are knowledgeable of ADA code, please show me which diagram makes the curb cut impossible. Just curious. Thanks!
http://www.access-by-design.com/adaag/adaag1.htm
19 Jun 2008 at 06:05 pm | #
God, they hate cancer people and People in wheelchairs.
Before you make an A** for the 15th time today, why dont you get a person in a wheelchair to explain to the professional why that current set up is a DANGER and a clear , potential LIABILITY to having them hurt or Killed visiting what is THEIR garage and THEIR Square because YOU morons won’t fix what is an OBVIOUS PROBLEM .
Dean, where can I get a copy of this video? They want some press ? I know just the guy. Give them a little taste of the future.
private garage huh?
19 Jun 2008 at 06:15 pm | #
To download YouTube videos, try this:
http://www.downloadyoutubevideos.com/
20 Jun 2008 at 08:33 am | #
How about making a complaint to the Ohio Civil Rights Commission office on Reading Road, phone # 852-3344? Then 3CDC can explain/justify this to them, and if there’s no problem, all is well in terms of compliance. Anyone can make a complaint, not just disabled persons.
20 Jun 2008 at 01:40 pm | #
I saw a follow up video about a news story that stated they were planning on making the modifications that were suggested. Is that correct or am I just confused? If not they really need to; how hard can it really be to make a place accessible for all of our city’s inhabitants!?! Great video, keep on exposing their constant insensitivity towards anyone who won’t make them an easy buck.
20 Jun 2008 at 03:29 pm | #
I think, and I hope they are all reading this, that it is time that this council, WAKE UP and that they demand some accountability of these people ( 3CDC) to the RESPONSIBILITY that they ACEPPTED and demand that they FIX this problem TODAY. The ARROGANCE of this group (3CDC) and Fountain Square MANAGEMENT is beyond any measure of understanding.
Ohio has many SOLDIERS fighting a war, where 10’s of thousands are suffering loss of limbs and other disabling injuries , and others with disabilities which require assistance of a Wheel Chair or Walker in itself is reason enough . Also, many business such as the REDS, Kings Island and the City spend a tons of money to get people to come here as a destination spot, and just imagine the PR this City will get when someone gets hurt.
I believe I read yesterday a comment somewhere from Councilwoman Ghiz , during the committee meeting to work out an oridnance to require people who own dogs to insure they maintain their dogs responsbily, and enforce penalties on those that dont. She commented something along the lines ” amazement at the utter stupidity” at her fellow council memebers for even discussing this. Something to that effect.
Well, Councilwoman Ghiz, You think this might be a little HIGER up the LIST ? This is a clear DANGER, and a major LIABILITY , and it is not a question of IF someone will get HURT or KILLED, but WHEN. You can put a MR Clean carwash in the cities garage, CLOSER to the wheelchair ramp but you can’t make it safe, or easy for the CITIZENS and VISTORS who NEED the ramp to go to the SQUARE ????
If the President of the Hamilton County Commisson, Todd Portune cannot get an answer for this question in over a year ( that is disrespectful to his postion, and also to him as a person who requires assistance in his mobility) he is right. How do the Citizens feel about your LACK of YOUR responsbility in not holding accountable the organization that YOU put there?
To have the manger of the square post such an idiotic statement as ” Go get a professional to explain codes” , is just an example of this group YOU choose to run the Square, and the issues that people experience in dealing with them.
I will say again, that maybe someone should explain to square management that it may be in code, but when someone takes you and the city to court because someone was KILLED or seriously HURT, just because it is “code” will not help you avoid the LIABILITY and BACKLASH WHEN it happens. One only needs to watch that Video, and respect the opinion of the President of the Hamilton County Commission to see that YOU are wrong. There are instances where CODES are WRONG, and this would be one of them.
So COUNCIL, do what is RIGHT. This is NOT a POLITICAL issue, it is a SAFETY issue. DO WHAT IS RIGHT , and hold them accountable to Mission you GAVE THEM , and hold them ACCOUNTABLE and demand that they FIX this. NOW.
I got the video Dean, and I have sent it off to quite a few people. This “person” who runs the Square wants his moment of fame, he is about to get it. I sent it to the Ohio Civil Rights Commission, Disabled American Veterans and many other groups. This Video will get the attention it deserves. Good Job for you and Justin to point this issue out, and for Commissioner Portune for his experience. It is good to see someone in a postion of Authority in this area, cares about the people he represents. I think it is safe to say that this would have been fixed a year ago, with one phone call, had it been a county issue.
It just amazes me why this council cannot figure out why it loses people, buisness, and growth , and why people live in the Burbs, and DO NOT come down .
I also read yesterday in the same place about the dog ordinance, comment after comment after comment on how the very people that the Mayor and DCI are going to spend 690,000 in a PR effort to come downtown wrote how “they just sit and chuckle “.
There are alot of people that should be ashamed of themselves. You know who you are.
20 Jun 2008 at 05:20 pm | #
The Beacon covered this extensively over a year ago. The ADA is not a code, it is a Federal Law. There is no local “opt-out.” The loal building inspectors cannot give 3CDC a pass and have it mean anything. 3CDC must follow the law.
And, they are not in compliance with the law. They did extensive renovation to the parking garage which means that they can no longer claim that they are grandfathered in.
20 Jun 2008 at 05:46 pm | #
Michael- I wonder if thats like declaring the Plan to planning to make a plan to cut Greenhouse gasses?
A Plan to fix this as I am sure you will agree is NOT enough. They should have this Management group down there FIRST thing Monday Morning to DO the work.
In the mean time, Make the Manager of the square stand down there with a sign on a stick , oops not allowed , so maybe a Sandwich Board sign saying CAUTION , and personally escort and help people in Wheelchairs safely get to the elevators until the work is done. Would serve him right for his idiotic statements to ” get a professional to explain code.” No concern what so ever to the danger of this situation.
I also think he should spend a week in a Childrens Cancer Ward . Kind of a shock diversion. Then , they should fire him. This guy is only going to continue to do things that exposes this City to more liability, and to further cause embarrassment to those that put him there.
21 Jun 2008 at 02:45 am | #
http://www.wlwt.com/video/16667898/index.html WTG Commissioner Portune and the Beacon!!
Isn’t It amazing that it takes the Beacon, and the The President of the Hamilton County Commission Todd Portune , to get at least someone from 3CDC to even respsond ( Kelly Leon ) a year and half after they promised to fix this problem? Of course, A Professional ( and the Beacon) suggested taking out one space and cutting a ramp. 3CDC says that would create ” Unspecified additional Problem” . 3CDC will meet with Commissioner Portune to discuss the matter further, which is good but…. WHERE IS THE CITY ???? Are they not responsible for Oversight of this ” Group” ? Didn’t the Beacon report that the Mayor and council would appoint a board to oversee this 3CDC? what happened to that?
Never the less, kudos to The Beacon, Commissioner Portune, and WLWT
WLWT reports there was no comment from the City.
21 Jun 2008 at 02:58 am | #
Good spot.
21 Jun 2008 at 08:13 am | #
R,
I am typically the resident smart-ass on the Beacon pages. But I don’t see the big deal about this one. I don’t know anything about building codes so what you stated may be correct. I just don’t see the big deal about adding lip to the curb so that handicapped people can access it better. It’s often shocking how little people pay attention to this stuff.
I used to work at a hotel that outside access to rooms. One of the “accessible” rooms was on the street level, however, their was about a 2 inch piece of raised concrete to prevent water from coming into the room under the door. This raised concrete made it impossible for someone in a wheelchair to get into the room alone. Many times I had to assist handicapped guests into the room because to make it in themselves they would have to be traveling at a ridiculous speed. This is all because someone didn’t think to use some weather stripping.
21 Jun 2008 at 12:41 pm | #
Well, it is a few things.
First, we are talking cars and wheelchairs, blindspots, which means as Deans video clearly established , someone is going to get seriously hurt and killed. That’s a big deal.
Second, it is the fact that these people are responsible for what is still the cities garage, and I think The Dean and this news station both covered this, and a promise was made to correct the problem. A promise was made also to the President of the County Commission, Mr Portune as he said in a post here WED I believe , that he addressed this concern about this to 3CDC over a year and a half ago, and never heard back from them. The fact that there is no response to him , shows to me, and many others, demonstrates the lack of Oversight that the city council has over these people, and the experience that others have experienced with them. Me with my cancer benefit. They feel they are above any law, the feel that they OWN the square, they do not, and they feel they are under no obligation to address issues they are required to do by virtue of the lease they have the city. They have to follow the Rules and maintain the conditions that they are required to by the city . As you heard quite clearly in the video that The dean and Justin made, they feel they own the square and the garage. ” This is a private garage owned by 3CDC ” stated by the person there. They do not.
Next, there is to be oversight of how this ” group” does what it is obligated to do , and certainly, as they stress liability and safety as reason to give permits, one could expect that they follow their OWN rules, established by the city, which they feel they do not have to follow. Our Cancer event was not to be because they did not follow their OWN rules. Does that seem right?
Does it seem right that it should take a year and a half to address a clear Saftey issue? I am the type of person who cares about such things. Nobody should have to be hurt or killed because they dont feel the need to to follow the obligations they were given. also, I did a lab in University to understand what life was like in a wheelchair. It was an eye opening experience. It was difficult getting around, very hard, and I knew that at any moment I could get out of the chair. People in a wheelchair cannot. One of the people I help with cancer issues, her husband was fighting in Iraq, and had bot legs blown offf by I think they are called IED’s. He is now in a wheelchair. There are thousands and thousands like him.. He was rabid about that video
I have been waiting for them to produce documents relating to my issue with them, and i just find that they expect the citizens to follow rules and the laws, are they not expected to do the same? Why shouldnt the? Because on oneside you have the city council who is responsible to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to do, as we are a residents, and on the otherside, you have 3CDC that is obligated to follow certain rules as condition to them reciecing what is a ton of money to do their work. That is to maintain and manage the Square and Garage as set forth in the agreement.
Lastly , I know this issue has been brought up before, by The Dean, and the President of the County Comission, Mr Portune. Why is it that Mr Portune has to do it and not the city, which is responsible for the Oversight of this agreement?
as I recall, there was great concern when the city turned over this important asset to this group 3CDC, that an oversight committee would be Esatablsihed to monitor them. My experience and the statement by the manager in regard to this issue, shows clearly that there is need for one. it was promised, why is it not there?
As I am an advocate for people with cancer, I am also an advocate of those with disabilities. It is great that at a Hotel you helped people over a design flaw, that made it difficult for people to get into rooms. It was probably part of you job, and it was probably you carring enough to help them. Have you ever seen someone going in the street in a wheelchair because they couldnt get up somewhere because their was no access for them to do so? People have been killed this way. I imagine in a garage, one might have to wait awhile to get some assistance to get over that curb, or the other option would be to possible get hit by a car trying to get to the other side.
It’s just wrong, and the first post really showed a total lack of concern by FSMG to the situation. To me , thats wrong.
People on the council ran and were elected to take care of these things. The people I have dealt with in various departments are all aware of the various issues I, and others have had with this group. It is my opinion that they should address those issues. It is an abligation they made with the people. They sought it, they ran for it, and it is their Job to do it. From what I have seen, for some reason, they are maybe frighten about future elections, so they let them do what they want to. That is not how it is supposed to work. Luckily, The president of the Hamilton County Commission will do it for them. I am certain that their are other groups that will lend a hand.
Michael is right, the ADA is a law. It deals with cancer, people with handicaps , and other sisabilities. So if the Manger of the Square doesnt know that, he should be educated to that fact. Violation of Civil rights is against the law. He will be educated on that one also.
Open records law means that I am entitled to recieve and the city and this group that represents the city, are required to provide these documents under the law. I will also remind them of that law also. getting to the square, using the square, should not be this dificult. They have posted on their website certain rules to maintain saftey. Would would the garage be any different ?
21 Jun 2008 at 01:34 pm | #
# 13,
I am sorry, I kind of misread your post. That’s exactly the point. It isnt a big deal for them to correct this. The big deal is that they dont. If someone were to be killed, not at all discounting that someone could lose their life, it is that this group tends to make what should be a simple, and the right thing to do, into the potential for a major disater. The fact that from the first post, which is his way of saying ” I don’t care” is a snapshot of how he thinks.
There are alot of good names on the list of the Board of 3CDC. Some of them I have met. Some of the companies I own stock in, and my family has before me. I can tell you it took everything I had to stop what would have been a national Boycott from Cancer groups from happening. I didnt think that was right, as having had interaction with quite a few of them, I know they are good, kindhearted people that just may not be aware of what the people on the ground are doing in the name of this organization. They are gicing their time, and I imagine money to help this City. It is in their interests to have this be a vibrant City. So, Instead, I have recently written a letter to a couple of them, detail my experience, with documentation so that they are aware. A National Boycott is not the answer. But I can tell you, someone in a wheelchair gets killed in that garage and knows about the arrogant response of what should be a simple, thoughtful, and the right thing to do may go down that list and feel differently. All because someone didnt think, and became so arrogant he doesnt understand the potential consequences in his reponse and in his actions. That is not someone who should be in charge of one of our greatest assets.
As long as I can remember, this City has always acted in Reaction mode. How much as that cost this city over the years, in actual money, lost residents and business? He is a small step that can be taken immediately, to avoid another Potentially large problem.
People helping each other is what a community is all about. The amany times you helped push someone over the concrete to help them, may seem like a small thing to you, but it was a very large thing for them. A community with the heart to do those small things for people, make the community large and strong.
So you see, people may see the ” resident smart ass” in some posts , I cant say that I have. I understand sardonic, but the mere fact that you even thought to help those people into a hotel room, In spite of the name you choose to post with, you do care. Alot of people doing alot of simple acts makes a strong community. There is alot of “Community” in Hamilton County and Cincinnati. It has just always been MY opinion that alot of the people whom we have elected,and have agreed to serve the PEOPLE , sometimes get lost and forget what we are doing. We are trying to build our community. Not with bells and whistles, but thru our people.
So it ticks me off when I have the experience I had, trying to help my community, and to see the same one responsible say something like he did it post 1. There is not room for that is what is one of our most important assets. It also is contrary to our other most importand asset. Our people. I also say that agreement or not, to have these guys( Jason, Justin, Michael) take their own time, and I imagine alot of it, to bring forth these issues, is a tremendous asset to the community, and making it strong.
I am VERY impressed with Commissioner Portune, and his efforts to see this thru. The great thing is, he didn’t do it for himself, he did it for the people. I am sure I don’t agree with every position he has, and people may have oposing views on which roadd to take , but that’s ok, this shows he cares about the people
That how we build a thriving community
01 Jul 2008 at 01:24 am | #
Is it fixed yet? You should start a countdown on how many days it has been since they said they would fix the handicap parking issue.
PS I take back everything nice I said about Mr Portune except for his stance on the parking issue at fountain square garage.
10 Jul 2008 at 01:45 pm | #
Compact car spaces are put in a garage to provide additional clearance in tight areas. For example, around that turn. You can’t fit more cars into a garage with compact spaces because compact cars are not narrower, only shorter.