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Friday, August 29, 2008
Potty Lockdown! 3CDC says “No” to pee-pee
Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
Photo courtesy of here.
I guess I won’t be taking my five year old son to Fountain Square during the afternoons anymore, since the last thing I need with a small kid is to be running around hoping some business owner will let him pee in their toilets. If you haven’t heard, 3CDC has decided to shut down the public bathrooms on Fountain Square! Now, the potty will only be available from 11am-2pm, and during 3CDC’s money-making events on the Square. I guess this is the latest from the genius of Bill Donabedian—yet another chapter in the hostile corporate takeover of Cincinnati’s central public space.
From the Channel 12 report:
The people who really needed the restrooms Thursday are hoping 3CDC considers extending the hours.
3CDC defended its policy saying some cities do not provide any restrooms at public venues.
Out of pure curiosity, I’d like to know some comparable spaces to Cincinnati’s Fountain Square, so I can confirm whether 3CDC’s claims are true. But even if they are, I bet those places don’t have closed public restrooms—which seems a burdensome irritant to anyone needing to pee, or worse. The last thing anyone needs in an emergency is running to the public bathrooms during broad daylight only to discover they are closed! One must wonder how 3CDC will feel after someone has their first public accident on the Square!
I found Channel 12’s juxtaposition interesting, too. Compare 3CDC complaining about bathroom vandalism with the statements from business owners who are now unfairly providing public facilities in their private property:
“It’s a great convenience for people to have public bathrooms, but unfortunately it’s also become a blatant target for vandalism and for abuse,” said Kelly Leon, 3CDC. “Pulling receptacles off the wall, to alcohol and drug abuse.”
Also, there’s problem with public bathing in the sinks.
People who have to go are now heading to local restaurants on Fountain Square. Wednesday, we watched numerous people going into Graeter’s to use the bathroom and never buying a thing.
Graeter’s didn’t want to comment, but, there’s a sign that says bathrooms are for paying customers only.
“They usually do not have that sign up,” said Erin Ramey, in need of a restroom. “They usually let anybody in there.”
Potbelly is seeing an increase in people coming in just to use the bathroom, even the homeless. But the manager says they don’t make a mess, so he doesn’t mind.
“They come in just to go to the restroom and then they leave,” said Jerry Berning, Potbelly manager. “They don’t bother anybody at all. I mean they have to use the restroom somewhere, too.”
First, they closed the Square for a few hours each night. Remember, the Square is not a park. It is public space. But 3CDC closed it. Now they have closed public bathrooms during the middle of the day. Despite promising otherwise at the beginning of the deal, permitting rights have been handed over to 3CDC. One must wonder what offense against the public 3CDC has planned next, in their ongoing attempt to seize Cincinnati’s premier public asset.
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29 Aug 2008 at 08:01 am | #
Jason:[
I wonder what offense, the mobile blight generators (i.e. the chronic homeless), have planned next, in their ongoing attempt to seize Cincinnati’s premier public bathrooms. They’ve taken over the trees at Washington Park, the bathrooms at Findlay Market; what’s next, a sh&t in at City Hall?
29 Aug 2008 at 10:22 am | #
If the private sector has the ability to say who comes and goes, or who gets to piss and when, then how then can Fountain Square be considered a “public” space? This is the farce that surrounds the notion that there is such a thing as “public” space. What’s not farcical about this situation, and other battles for public space in urban areas, is that this is a perfect example of neoliberalism at its finest. If Fountain square was a true public space then 3CDC would have no more “right” to determine when these restrooms are open than you or I. Right?
This is a perfect example for what has been happening to “public” spaces in our country for years. In this context the word “public” has simply become a codeword meaning that space is “public” but only for those that are considered “desireables.” In other words, the reality of “public” space does not exist for the homeless. So ask yourself this, who has a right to public space? And before you answer that with, “why should I have to waste my tax dollars on a bunch of homeless people defacing public property?” Where is the evidence that vandalism had run rampant in the Fountain Square bathrooms?
29 Aug 2008 at 11:42 am | #
On the one hand I can understand closing the restroom facilities. It’s got to be hard constantly replacing broken items in the bathroom and having folks taking baths in the sink.
But larger issues like homelessness, mental issues, and crime (why people who commit crimes become repeat offenders) need to be addressed.
Thus far we seem to live in a town that has the “lock em up” and throw away the key mentality (ie. Joe Deters). SOME homeless people have mental issues, drug issues, so crimes are committed. I know…I know…excuses are tools of incompetence….
I’m searching for solutions…..
29 Aug 2008 at 01:25 pm | #
.
God forbid that some homeless individual, after having their mortgage foreclosed, needs to freshen up to go to job interview !
Society needs free public showers and laundry facilities !
What you have done for the least of thee….
.
29 Aug 2008 at 03:25 pm | #
Maybe, since its a public space, you should volenteer to clean up after the bums and queers…
29 Aug 2008 at 03:48 pm | #
That is truly disappointing. There are many people that have health issues that require them to use the bathroom, sometimes with little notice. I hope that the various disability advocates knows about this and makes a big fuss.
29 Aug 2008 at 05:53 pm | #
“Out of pure curiosity, I’d like to know some comparable spaces to Cincinnati’s Fountain Square, so I can confirm whether 3CDC’s claims are true.”
Have you ever been to New York city? What about Chicago? What about any other major city in the U.S.? None of them provide bathrooms like that at large public gathering spaces. And its for the reasons described in the article. People do stupid things like drugs, vandalism, violent crime, etc. etc. They are public health and safety hazards and I agree they shouldn’t be there if they are being misused.
Don’t blame 3CDC, blame it on the stupid citizens who act like Neanderthals.
29 Aug 2008 at 06:10 pm | #
Shame on Steven Leeper and all the corporate shills that voted to corporatize our public space. 3CDC’s assault on the public continues.
NtotheC, 3CDC doesn’t care about people with disabilities and we should all make a big fuss. People should write letters to the editors of our local papers.
29 Aug 2008 at 06:30 pm | #
JFD, being poor isn’t a crime. “A sh&t in at City Hall?” That’s a good one.
Ryan Shadle, it’s the corporate sector. We should call it exactly what it is. We must challenge corporate control of our government and of the commons.
I haven’t seen any evidence of vandalism. Can’t people vandalize things from 11-2 or during 3CDC’s events? I don’t care what other cities do or don’t do. ‘Other cities do it to’, that’s the same excuse they used when they took away the parking attendants and installed machines that made the garage less user friendly. One of the other things they said they wouldn’t do when this shady deal first went down.
29 Aug 2008 at 07:43 pm | #
http://www.americanrestroom.org/pnr/index.htm
29 Aug 2008 at 07:51 pm | #
I just sent this:
29 Aug 2008 at 08:21 pm | #
.
Great job Beacon !
Most citizens are one paycheck away from homelessness !
.
29 Aug 2008 at 11:31 pm | #
Justin,
You have a pretty good archive of my comments by now, so please quote me where I ever said, being poor was a crime. If I meant to say that I would have, so, If that is going to continue to be your only rebuttal to my comments, why bother?
There are homeless, and there are chronic homeless. The homeless have options available to them to get them off the street, and most of them take advantage of those options. The chronic homeless are an entirely different group, in that they refuse all attempts to help them change their situation. They don’t give a rats ass how their disgusting actions affect anyone else’s lives. They are what they are, and their attitude is screw everyone else. These are people who really need someone else making decisions for them. In the mean time, if that means 3CDC has to close the toilet facilities, to keep them from being misused, then so be it.
30 Aug 2008 at 12:17 am | #
so the problem is cd3c and not the people who vandalize the bathroom right?
30 Aug 2008 at 12:52 am | #
Sharing a bathroom is pretty intimate contact - public bathrooms are, in essence, a breach of that. Opening bathrooms to individuals who treat it not as a shared, public bathroom - but as their personal bathroom - is a little much for me. Not to be mean. But they aren’t designed to take care of the continuing hygiene needs of the population.
That said - limiting the time on access is ridiculous. And failing to provide for a need humans can’t escape, is even more ridiculous.
What ever happened to the YMCA providing these services?
Maybe it’s time to provide public bath houses and bathrooms. Should it be on Fountain Square - by no means whatsoever. Should the homeless respect the rights of others to not have to use someone’s personal bathroom while attending a public event? I think so.
Maybe not a popular position - but, there has to be another answer all the way around.
30 Aug 2008 at 09:02 am | #
Dear Dean,
Thank-You!, for your letter, not many people give a sh&t what we here at the American Restroom Association think. We would love to “wipe” out your questions for you; however things are a little “backed up” around here right now.
30 Aug 2008 at 09:48 am | #
Bill,
It seems the organization got some good work done on public restroom access in Portland, featuring an in depth analysis of available public restrooms and recommendations for improvement. The report, which you can find linked at the address below, also includes case studies of public toilets in other major cities—despite Donabedian acting like the closure of public facilities is all the rave.
http://americanrestroom.org/us/portland/
30 Aug 2008 at 09:49 am | #
BTW, here is the Mayor of Portland with a page about his team designed for improving public access to toilets.
http://www.portlandonline.com/MAYOR/index.cfm?c=eeihj
Isn’t Portland one of Cincinnati’s models for the Streetcars? So let me get this straight: we’ll spend millions on something we don’t need, but nothing on something everyone uses at one time or another?
30 Aug 2008 at 10:07 am | #
Jason #18:
I don’t think we should spend millions on public restrooms; I think the plan is to spend it on streetcars, which practically everyone will use at one time or another.
30 Aug 2008 at 10:29 am | #
It is unlikely you will ever have a time in your life where no streetcar will cause you to have an accident in your pants.
30 Aug 2008 at 12:06 pm | #
I just found this comment on the CityKin blog:
30 Aug 2008 at 12:51 pm | #
“Maybe it’s time to provide public bath houses and bathrooms. Should it be on Fountain Square - by no means whatsoever. Should the homeless respect the rights of others to not have to use someone’s personal bathroom while attending a public event? I think so. Maybe not a popular position - but, there has to be another answer all the way around.”
Yes, it is time to provide public bath houses and bathrooms, PERIOD !
Additionally, set min. standards of living for all Americans !
When you have the riches country in the world with the ability to print their own man made illusion of value they call the dollar there is no reason we should permit a human being to sleep on the street. They should have a home, PERIOD !
The dollar has devalued by 41% under the bushwhacko administration. The average individual makes 2000.00 less per, year.
We can devalue the dollar for all citizens or continue to devalue it for the top 1% as they play (hedge) the currency markets ?
Socialism aside, what is more important. A human being or some man made illusion of value ?
The choice is simple:
http://www.truemajority.org/oreos/
.
30 Aug 2008 at 06:07 pm | #
Bill, you’re saying chronic homeless people go around planning to commit offenses and attempting to seize premier public spaces and you’re dehumaninzing poor people by calling them “mobile blight generators”. Poor people are human beings and 3CDC has seized our premiere public space.
31 Aug 2008 at 01:37 am | #
No Justin, I said offense, (as opposed to defense); and, the chronic homeless have already dehumanized themselves; you can’t credit me with that one.
01 Sep 2008 at 09:41 am | #
Cincinnati has consistently failed to see any value in public restrooms and perhaps that is why there are so many at City Hall that are so full of it.
It is short sighted to ignore the need for public toilets because most of you are unable to get beyond their prejudices against homeless people and the like. Just because some of you feel superior to a street person, the fact remains that people urinating in the street are detrimental to the city’s image. And as much as you would like to believe that you can force people from urinating in the street, you aren’t going to be successful in getting these street people to be as anal retentive as you.
I tried twenty years ago to get this city to look at automatic street toilets that are sold out of France and it was like talking to a stone wall. A lot of you are showing your ignorance of this rather basic topic. There are viable solutions and here is a website that will take you more than one crapper sitting to read all that is on this site: http://www.americanrestroom.org/ .
It is ironic that the site has the name “american restroom” , when it is everywhere but America than is more advanced in this area.
02 Sep 2008 at 05:43 pm | #
Hmmmm, according to the American Restroom Association (ARA), which I had no idea existed prior to reading this post, not only do all “livable cities have public restrooms” but they are also are essential to the revitialization of downtown areas and places with aspirations to have successful mass-transit systems.
Hence, that makes the square a perfect place for a public restroom, right?
To be honest, I generally despise public restrooms, I’m at the sqare ALOT though and have had to use the restroom ont eh square a more than a few times and I really haven’t seen any noticable graffiti or damage, nor have I seen any type of out of the ordinary grooming take place.
Considering that the bathrooms ARE public however, if someone did need to freshen up a bit, given that they did so in a manner that was respecting my right to use the facilities as well, what right do I have to condemn them.
27 Nov 2008 at 12:57 pm | #
It’s been my understanding that Fountian Square is now public property being leased by a private company.
Is this the case or not?
If this is the case, then wouldn’t 3CDC have certain rights to the property the same way that I have certain rights to my apartment? For instance, my landlord owns the property where I live, but by leasing it to me, he gives up certain rights to the property (i.e. he cannot enter whenever he wants without a certain amount of notice)
If that’s the case, then 3CDC would have the rights to open and close the restrooms whenever they want.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a shitty policy and I’d love to see it changed, but it seems to me that the city is at fault for giving up the rights to the square and letting a private organization do whatever they want.
Next step: 3CDC presents the Mr. Clean AutoSpa at Mt. Rushmore.
27 Nov 2008 at 01:37 pm | #
This issue is entirely different—and if you search elsewhere on this site you’ll find further developments.
Ohio code requires parking garages to make toilets available during hours of operation. The toilets for the garage on on FSQ. By closing the toilets, they are in violation of building code as it pertains to toilet availability.