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Sunday, May 11, 2008
Mill Creek Pollution?
Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
Photo courtesy of here.
Every morning, on my way to work, I drive across Spring Grove Avenue, past P&G, and eventually through Carthage. One day, I noticed one of those signs urging me to “Keep it Clean” about the Mill Creek, and I realized that I crossed a bridge. I just hadn’t really noticed this before. The north facing of this bridge has a very noteworthy view, in my estimation, and it just causes one to wonder what kind of pollution, if any, gets dumped into the creek by the chemical plants lining the concrete creek.
Take a look at this shot, for a good example:
Photo courtesy of here.
If you look closely (or check out this larger view), you can see, in the center, how a large stream of “water” is pouring directly into the creek.
Is that really just plain, old, ordinary water?
And look towards the right side of the picture. See that red flap? Red usually means “danger.” Does something dangerous pour, occasionally, from that flap? And look at the black residue dripping from the hole. What is that stuff?
Here is another view:
Photo courtesy of here.
In addition to another view of both the red flap with black residue (bottom right), and the gushing liquids getting dumped (center), you can see other colors of flaps with black residue beneath them. (Try this larger view, if necessary.) I see a yellow flap, like the red one. “Yellow” usually means “caution,” right? About what should we be cautious concerning that flap? And, again, what is that black stuff?
Just some things I think about now, while driving to work each morning…
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11 May 2008 at 11:52 am | #
Perhaps, that multi-million dollar concrete project was to move pollutants and not storm water as claimed ?
Great work !
11 May 2008 at 02:26 pm | #
While I have no doubt that the Mill Creek could be polluted by companies that work near it, your sleuthing that red = danger and yellow = caution is laughable. I’m sure the P&G brass figured that one out pretty quick. I can just see it now:
P&G Exec 1: If only we could find a way to designate that something dangerous is coming from this spout.
P&G Exec 2: Well, it will have to be conspicous. Something that only we can figure out.
P&G Exec 1: I know, we’ll use a red flap.
Dean, seriously, do you think P&G is so dumb as to purposefully put contaminats into the creek and cover the tube it travels through with a “red” flap because it means “danger.”
11 May 2008 at 03:47 pm | #
You are just now realizing the Mill Creek is an open sewer???
11 May 2008 at 04:35 pm | #
Axinar, I know about the design of our sewer, and that in heavy rain toilet flushes go, unfiltered, into the creek.
That is different than chemical dumping, if in fact such a thing is happening.
Who Cares?, Once again, you rely on fallible appeals to ridicule instead of real arguments.
In 2007, I posted this item, when I was told by a worker at MSD that various chemicals get dumped, illegally, into the sewer because it is impossible to police the dumping. Can’t the same be true for the Mill Creek?
OK. So you think my observations of standard color meanings is silly.
11 May 2008 at 07:08 pm | #
Dean: you can be so incredibly, painfully and I must write willfully uninformed sometimes.
No one “dumps"pollutants into the Mill Creek. It is one of the most heavily surveyed and analyzed waterways around.
It is paralleled for much of its length with storm sewers, sanitary/process sewers, and combined storm-sanitary/process sewers. These sewers normally conduct their waste water to MSD for treatment. Because the sanitary/process sewers are combined with storm water, something eco-nuts have compelled the elimination of at great taxpayer expense, when rainwater swells these sewers they overflow into the Mill Creek and other waterways. What you see on both sides of the Mill Creek are these “combined sewer overflows” or CSOs. Some areas, but not here, have Sanitary Sewer Overflows or SSOs that overflow due to too much pooh, not too much rainwater.
That black stuff? It’s called “algae.” The only thing P&G, Cognis, etal. put into the Mill Creek is water and sometimes it’s too warm and algae grows.
Now: please grow up! Posts like this are just uninformed muckraking.
PS: it might interest you to know that P&G only owns property further up the creek now; what you photographed belongs to the JM Smucker Company and they’re making Crisco Shortening & Oil at that plant. Exactly WHAT do you suggest they’re “polluting” the Mill Creek with?
11 May 2008 at 07:26 pm | #
~
The green water looks like Ethylene glycol, a.k.a. anti-freeze. Ethylene glycol antifreezes are poisonous and should be kept away from any person or animal (children and especially cats) that might be tempted by its sweet taste. They form calcium oxalate crystals in the kidneys and can cause acute renal failure and death.
There are thousands of gallons dumped by Do it Yourself auto wrenchers every day, not even knowing the disastrous effects.
12 May 2008 at 03:48 am | #
What does the sign above the red lid say? It’s probably red to be easily identified. The slime is algae. I happen to know for a fact there is a $78,000.00 robotic camera lost in the Mill creek. If you see it, give MSD a call.
And by the way, you need to get a life. You’re worried about everybody’s business but your own…
12 May 2008 at 05:44 am | #
Urbanists,
I’m not “suggesting” anything. I merely have noted that I drive past this area on my way to work, and that it is very strange in appearance. Additionally, there is a large flow of liquid pouring in, and there are multi-colored flaps with black stuff underneath.
I have never seen black algae, but if someone would like to direct me to a resource that would be great.
Dewey,
Why must I not be curious?
Several years ago, before I had ever heard of blogs, I used to find weird locations for filming video projects. I actually wandered to a location just south of this bridge, near the train tracks.
I came across several industrial barrels, sitting on the grass near the banks of the Mill Creek. They were labeled “toxic.”
I thought it strange to find barrels of “toxic” waste sitting next to a creek, so I called EPA.
I discovered, if one knew where to look, that the barrels were visible from I-75.
Two days after my call to EPA, they were all gone.
Anyway, I’m sure if I had done this now—and written a blog post entitled something like “Toxic Waste Near Mill Creek?”—people in the comments would be blasting me, just like right now.
12 May 2008 at 09:46 am | #
I would suggest google as a resource on this. “black algae” has over 20,000 returned websites and if that doenst convince you talk to some people that own pools.
12 May 2008 at 10:58 am | #
Right on Dean, don’t let these facists persuade you the wrong way. You are doing a great job! Maybe the Beacon should take action and get all the posters together to go survey the Mill Creek? Urbanist could be hung down past the concrete to gather water samples for lead and mineral tests...maybe someone could drop him?
12 May 2008 at 08:56 pm | #
.
“it might interest you to know that P&G only owns property further up the creek now; what you photographed belongs to the JM Smucker Company and they’re making Crisco Shortening & Oil at that plant. Exactly WHAT do you suggest they’re “polluting” the Mill Creek with?”
Are you certain of that ?
Are your sure Sumckers doesn’t lease the property from Ivorydale ?
That’s right those chemical manufactures are every bit as honest as the tobaco industry and we all know smoking doesn’t cause cancer !
Seems the urbanist has had just few too many dewey drops !
I think the EPA should test and explain.
.
13 May 2008 at 06:01 am | #
Thanks for the leads on “black algae.” I’ve been poking around a bit, and it seems “black algae” appears where there are high nitrate and phosphate levels in the water.
Later from the entry: “Eutrophication was recognized as a pollution problem in European and North American lakes and reservoirs in the mid-20th century.”
13 May 2008 at 07:34 am | #
Jason: “Thanks for the leads on “black algae.” I’ve been poking around a bit, and it seems “black algae” appears where there are high nitrate and phosphate levels in the water.”
While I’m sure it wasn’t you intent to mislead folks into thinking this supported your attempt to “suggest” there must be wrong doing involved, if there is a red or yellow, back flow preventer present; but you forgot to mention that phosphates and nitrates as well as black algae also occur naturally.
13 May 2008 at 11:04 am | #
So it sounds like eutrophication could be part of the problem, I havent yet looked at the surrounds of the area. Are there a lot of plants? Could this just be explained by nitrates and phosphates in the water, two chemicals which are common in any manufacturing plant?
13 May 2008 at 07:57 pm | #
These things so quickly devolve into futility exercises.
Insurance: in what capacity are “nitrates” and “phosphates” common in manufacturing plants, especially those that make shortening and cooking oil?
Mill Creek is for the most part channelized from south of Center Hill Road (West Fork) and Mitchell Avenue (East Fork) to MSD. Upstream areas are bank sloped and planted. Mill Creek Restoration Project has done a lot of work to green the Mill Creek but only so much it can do thanks to the Corps’ legacy of stupdity.
Futile Fighter: you constantly plumb the depths of stupidity. Ever hear of tax records? News releases announcing the sale of property?
Yes, ethylene glycol is poisonous, which is why it WOULDN’T BE ANYWHERE NEAR A PLANT THAT MAKES SHORTENING AND COOKING OIL!
Black algae: on the walls of the US Army Corps of Engineers-channelized Mill Creek, not in the water. Why? Well, maybe because the algae grows and dies, grows and dies, grows and dies. Or maybe it’s just slime mold for the same reason.
Mill Creek sees a lot of storm water flow so it’s pretty damn “fresh” water at Spring Grove Avenue, not stagnant as might be seen closer to MSD and the barrier dam.
Y’all make me long for the comparatively well-researched and -informed posts of MEP.
13 May 2008 at 09:45 pm | #
.
Urbanest appears to be a corporate operative. He has done nothing to sway our opinion. The green was located at MSD. Perhaps, you should read ? I’m still not convinced the property was sold. We recall the manufacturing operations being sold. Ya make us long for a more unbiased county or corporate view.
.
14 May 2008 at 07:53 am | #
Just another in a long line of much-ado about nothing from the Dean.
14 May 2008 at 09:00 pm | #
’
Urbanist if you want to appear the expert, then you need to read and follow all the posts. The Dean refered to his post in 2007.
To assist the slow learner this was the reference to: Anti-Freeze ?
Second note:
The auditors site does state that smuckers does own property on Spring Grove, however, the Dean never blamed P&G. He just stated that he drove by P&G.
.
17 May 2008 at 07:02 pm | #
Freedom Fighter appears to be a mental defective.
Genius! Sell the buildings, equipment, formula and brand, but lease the land. Yes of course: P&G as landlord. No.
If Dean “drove by” P&G and ostensibly photographed its assets, then he needs to drive up the street a little further; what he photographed belongs to JM Smucker so at a minimum he is confused and you are retarded.