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Sunday, September 23, 2007
Falsehoods Unbound! Bronson’s Jail Piece in the Enquirer
Posted by Michael Earl Patton
Sunday’s jail story and opinion by Peter Bronson was obviously written by someone who did not understand the issue and who was relying on only the pro-jail side for information. Besides portraying the jail as the preferred place for many mentally ill and African-Americans, some of the “facts” reported in a sidebar are wrong. One number, the “14,000” early releases since 2004, Sheriff Leis knows to be wildly wrong but often repeats it or a similar number in an apparent attempt to scare voters. Another, the $33 cost per taxpayer, is fudged. Other data are also wrong.
First, the sidebar says that the new jail will be built in Mount Washington. Though this probably just shows the paper’s lack of knowledge, do we know for sure what the actual case is? After all, the old Kahn’s site in Camp Washington, which had been talked about as the jail site, is probably contaminated and maybe a new jail site has been selected.
Now for the number of early releases. The actual number for 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 through March 12 is 720 total, most of whom are women. It is not 14,000. I was at the commissioners’ meeting on September 10 where Sheriff Leis reviewed the numbers with Commissioner Pat DeWine. He knows what they are. The “14,000” is the number of so-called “process-only’s,” which is the number of non-violent arrestees who are released on their own recognizance due to a temporary lack of jail beds. For over a year—ever since the county has been sending inmates to Butler County—there have been NO male “process-only’s.” Every male arrestee has been kept in jail unless and until he makes bail. Only some non-violent female arrestees have been released on their own recognizance due to a lack of jail beds for females. And, as Mr. Bronson’s piece pointed out, there was room for the woman from Batavia who was arrested for drug possession. Clearly we are not releasing dangerous criminals back onto the streets for lack of room.
The cost of “$33 per taxpayer” for the jail tax is fudged. A one-half cent sales tax for the two stadiums brought in just over $64 million in 2006. A one-half cent sales tax for the jail would do the same. The U.S. Census Bureau counted 845,303 people in Hamilton County in 2000 (it also estimates that the population has dropped since then, but let’s use the higher number). Sixty-four million divided by 845,303 yields about $75 per person. How do we get to $33 per taxpayer ?
The only way to do it is 1) to say everyone, including all the children, is a Hamilton County taxpayer, and 2) to say that most of the sales taxes in Hamilton County, 56% in fact, are paid by out-of-county residents. Since so many people are leaving Hamilton County for adjacent counties and those counties are building their own shopping centers, this simply does not seem credible now and would be an absolutely unbelievable assertion for the future.
Mr. Bronson also asserts “On a typical day, maximum security male inmates use nearly 1,200 beds, compared to about 450 for minimum security. Medium and maximum inmates together fill three beds for every non-violent drunk driver or mentally ill vagrant. And many of those beds are in the decaying, unsafe Queensgate - a converted warehouse built 107 years ago.”
This all comes down to how one defines maximum, medium, and minimum security inmates. Per the Enquirer’s own analysis last year (published July 30, 2006), 52% of the inmates were there for felony charges and 48% for misdemeanor charges. Apparently a lot of those arrested for misdemeanor charges are classified as medium or even maximum security risks.
Further, there has not been any study which has found that Queensgate is unsafe. The Sheriff will not allow independent media to see the facility, and even the Enquirer was not allowed to take pictures (July 15, 2007 Enquirer). If Queensgate were truly unsafe, then why not let the public see it?
Finally, Mr, Bronson quotes Commissioner Pepper as saying there is a “horrible 70 percent recidivism rate” which has offenders back in jail every 22 days. What’s this? Every 22 days ? There is no way this can be true. That would mean that the average offender is jailed 16 times per year. And then one has to ask for what is a person arrested so many times? Jaywalking? Spitting on the sidewalk? Loitering? Throwing a cigarette butt on the ground? If the arrests were for serious offenses, like armed robbery, then go ahead, keep them locked up once they are convicted. But don’t throw out numbers like this just to scare the voters.
Unfortunately, such editorials do nothing to actually educate the voters on this issue. They also show that The Enquirer needs to do more fact-checking before weighing in on such important topics. Is it any wonder that Nate Livingston filed an election complaint against them?
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23 Sep 2007 at 04:57 pm | #
My hat is off to MEP for crunching the numbers.
My objection to the jail is more basic.
We are fortunate to be a wealthy society so we buy things that make no sense just because we can. Jails are one of many examples.
Others are monster off-road personal vehicles.
Ethanol.
Breast implants.
I could go on, but I hope someone gets my points.
I would also direct attention to my comment on the Letter in CityBeat about the jail tax—here on the Beacon.
23 Sep 2007 at 06:33 pm | #
“Per the Enquirer’s own analysis last year (published July 30, 2006), 52% of the inmates were there for felony charges and 48% for misdemeanor charges. Apparently a lot of those arrested for misdemeanor charges are classified as medium or even maximum security risks.”
A large % of that 48% are the homeless and they are only classfied as a medium or maximum risk whenever an event is going on in the downtown area (hey at least for Oktoberfest they didn’t destroy all the homeless camps along the river like they did for Tall Stacks)
“That would mean that the average offender is jailed 16 times per year. And then one has to ask for what is a person arrested so many times? Jaywalking? Spitting on the sidewalk? Loitering? Throwing a cigarette butt on the ground?”
You forgot open flask, urinating in public, panhandling within 50 ft of a cross walk, sitting on the ground flying your sign, etc.
23 Sep 2007 at 06:36 pm | #
I remember when GCCH had that study released. Why is no one talking about permanent supportive housing for the homeless? Why is that not even an option? Just a billion dollar jail?
23 Sep 2007 at 07:25 pm | #
http://documents.csh.org/documents/ke/csh_lewin2004.PDF
See here for a recent study (cincinnati not there but Columbus is a base) for the results of Cost for homeless housing comparison study.
As to why Cincinnati is not, that is plain and simple, politics, all the majority of voters care about is NOT having to deal with the homeless, to them it makes no difference if they are in jail or in a supportive housing environment.
As for why Cincy has no plan you’d have to ask the GCCH.
From the report you mentioned, which jail proponents will never address:
The report notes that it costs $65 to house a homeless person in jail for one night. Tracking 53 homeless individuals who were arrested six or more times during the year, it estimates that these people alone cost the County $4.2 million dollars or an average of $35,100 per person.
23 Sep 2007 at 07:47 pm | #
Are you still running for council? Are you ever going to clear up, as a Libertarian Party candidate, what Libertarian values, issues, platforms you agree with or disagree with? I’ve been asking about this for weeks. I think you have an obligation to clear this up so you can be seriously considered or dismissed as a candidate. Libertarians, again, do not believe in government regulations and don’t support funding of social programs. They are very, very specific about their platform. They don’t believe in universal health care, welfare or social security. Yes, I understand that a candidate can vary somewhat from the party line, but what DO YOU AGREE with? What makes you a Libertarian? Can you please address these questions. Thank you.
23 Sep 2007 at 08:11 pm | #
3,000 outstanding warrants for domestic violence.
23 Sep 2007 at 08:23 pm | #
Those mentally ill and homeless persons being arrested time and time again and housed in jail are noncompliant and refuse assistance from the varied services available to them. Usually due to substance abuse.
The cold hard facts are that many of these mentally ill persons are living horrific lives because they either lack the facilities to make good choices or refuse to make the right choices and to infringe on the rights of everyone else in society.
Incentivized treatment through incarceration with the highest level of services and oversight is the compassionate and informed response to a system readily identifying those most in need and most difficult to locate.
The safety plan incorporates these intensive services to meet their needs where traditional otreach and services are insufficient.
Care enough to help them, not merely to tolerate them
23 Sep 2007 at 09:22 pm | #
“scprideandms”, AKA Mark Allen: You live in Alexandria, KY. What business is it of yours what we do in Hamilton County? Perhaps you should expend your energy on issues in Campbell County. How about all of those poor people in Newport who are going to loose their housing so that Corporex can build their multi million dollar South Shore development? Newport is going to tear down all of the section 8 housing close to the river. Why aren’t you or Jason talking trying to do something about that?
23 Sep 2007 at 09:37 pm | #
Those mentally ill and homeless persons being arrested time and time again and housed in jail are noncompliant and refuse assistance from the varied services available to them. Usually due to substance abuse.
“Getting those services is NEXT to impossible since they are spread across multiple agencies who DO NOT cooperate with wach other or have any coordination at all”
The cold hard facts are that many of these mentally ill persons are living horrific lives because they either lack the facilities to make good choices or refuse to make the right choices and to infringe on the rights of everyone else in society.
“I’ll agree with you on the mentally ill in lacking the facilities and even give you some of the refusal, seen and dealt with both. But for some it’s come down to a mere matter of survival.”
Incentivized treatment through incarceration with the highest level of services and oversight is the compassionate and informed response to a system readily identifying those most in need and most difficult to locate.
” There is no incentive in incarcerating them, they’ll take jail time over going hungry or sleeping outside when its 100 degrees or 10 below. Besides which their is no system for identifying them unless they jsut get lucky and meet someone who can help them weed thru all the red tape and bureacracy”
The safety plan incorporates these intensive services to meet their needs where traditional otreach and services are insufficient.
“Intensive services…what making them pay for their own underwear, toothpase etc.? What’s the tax money for then if not basic needs let alone the sercices they need”
Care enough to help them, not merely to tolerate them
“That’s what I’ve been doing for over a year now, even with my resources and knowledge it’s a constant battle just to get someone to respond to a phone call/email asking for specific information on what a person needs to do to “qualify” and get into whatever program they need.”
23 Sep 2007 at 10:27 pm | #
Cincysue has a bad habit of making up stuff. For instance, she’ll go to a Libertarian website and pick out a line or two but ignore the other material. I’ve made it clear what my principles are, probably more so than any other candidate. It is not hard to find where I show strong libertarian principles. Some examples follow, with special emphasis on the jail situation.
1. Strong civil liberty positions, especially the Bill of Rights (I keep a copy of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence by the computer). I have talked about the rights of the Eighth Amendment (against excessive bail), Sixth (speedy and fair trial, and ability to confront witnesses), Fourth (no unreasonable search and seizure), and First (freedom of speech and of the press) at a minimum.
2. Fiscally responsible government. I certainly have brought up that with respect to the jail, such as why it should cost so much, why the Sheriff has all his toys, and why did the county accept the Kahn’s site without doing an environmental site assessment.
3. Personal responsibility. I am for the legalization of marijuana, treating it like we treat alcohol (no driving under the influence). We can talk about how we handle the other drugs, but let’s admit the War on Drugs is a failure.
4. Minimal government beaurocracy. I certainly do not think someone should be brought to court and threatened with jail for having two unpainted window frames as I witnessed. I recently myself have been threatened by the city with being taken to court (fines and jail implied) if I did some tuckpointing without getting a permit first. Tuckpointing is just the replacement of where mortar has eroded from between stones, bricks, or concrete blocks. I wanted to do about 20 lineal feet total, but the inspector threatened to take me to court and said that he would be checking on me.
5. End of corporate welfare. See the print edition of The Cincinnati Beacon for more info.
6. Protection of property rights. No taking of one’s home or business in order to give it to another for their benefit. The Ohio Supreme Court put some restrictions on this, but Cincinnati now tries to do much the same thing through other means, such as excessive beaurocracy, taxes, excessive fines and fees, abridgment of civil rights, and suspicious inspections.
7. Non-intervention in foreign policy. I’ve been against the Iraq War since before it started. I demonstrated against it in front of the Union Terminal when Bush spoke there.
I’m not running for Congress, so don’t worry if I’ll touch Social Security if elected. And those who wish to should google Libertarian and check out their positions on other subjects. Besides the fact that not all Libertarians agree on all issues, please note that there are often substitute proposals for such issues as welfare and Social Security as they are currently practiced.
23 Sep 2007 at 10:36 pm | #
Using published materials, please identify what will be done differently than now, including additional spending for mentally ill inmates. Because I cannot find squat in the “Comprehensive Safety Plan” booklet, and I think that visiting only “by video,” that is, no in-person visits from family and friends, would be a giant step backwards (see p. 12).
23 Sep 2007 at 10:47 pm | #
anon, you sound just like David Pepper. Jailing non-violent people doesn’t help them. It isn’t a compassionate or informed decision.
The so-called safety plan only makes the status quo safe. More jails, more cops, and more draconian laws against the poor and black people. This is a war on the poor and it’s paid for on the backs of the poor.
24 Sep 2007 at 04:12 am | #
MEP: ” Is it any wonder that Nate Livingston filed an election complaint against them?”
I too, support N8’s baseless election complaint and everything it accomplished. I can see why you would reference it to bolster your credibility.
24 Sep 2007 at 07:48 am | #
“scprideandms”, AKA Mark Allen: You live in Alexandria, KY. What business is it of yours what we do in Hamilton County? Perhaps you should expend your energy on issues in Campbell County. How about all of those poor people in Newport who are going to loose their housing so that Corporex can build their multi million dollar South Shore development? Newport is going to tear down all of the section 8 housing close to the river. Why aren’t you or Jason talking trying to do something about that?
I work in and commute thru Hamilton County and Cincy. I deal with the homeless every day in Downtown which is where they are the most visible to me. I agree that the poor people in Newport that are losing their housing is also an issue and that tearing down the section 8 housing close to the river should also be addressed. My time, access and knowledge of that area is limited and I feel I can help more doing what I am doing.
There are people helping the homeless or soon to be homeless (including government/social agency/law enforcement personnel as well as individuals) but it’s difficult to wade through the red tape and bureaucracy unless you make it a full time job. I don’t want this to be personal attacks but Cincinnati/Hamilton County needs a comprehensive and viable plan to help the homeless AND to improve the city’s safety. I don’t see a new jail doing that.
And maybe you are right CincyCapell I should concentrate on what’s closer to home and let the City of Cincinnati and Hamilton County residents deal with the City and County issues. I’ll give it some thought, thanks.
And I apologize for letting my “frustration” make it seem like nothing was being done or done correctly. I can’t imagine those who deal with it 24x7 or even 8 hrs a day 5 days a week as there job feel. I need to be less “venting” and more “maybe we can try this?” in my posts.
I need to remember my own advice, unless you are presenting a potential/possible solution along with the problem/issue you are just “bitchin and complaining”.
24 Sep 2007 at 07:49 am | #
Do people care that Bronson lied? Or that he is parroting the elected officials who are also lying?
24 Sep 2007 at 10:05 am | #
“It is not hard to find where I show strong libertarian principles. Some examples follow, with special emphasis on the jail situation…....”
It looks like Captain Queeg is off his meds again. Everyone tuck in your shirt tails.
24 Sep 2007 at 10:38 am | #
Here’s the thing—many of these people - without severe intervention- are left to survive on the streets as victims, often of their own making.
As a society we’re willing to throw a quarter in a beggar’s cup, but we’re not willing to do the really hard part- dedicating resources, time and effort into keeping them out of jail once identified via arrest for minor infractions (often made up I think)....
Where do we draw the line: pissing and defacating on the sidewalk? accosting passers-by? public drunkardness? THese are all cries for help - saying, I can’t do it on my own. Chosing going to jail for a warm bed and 3 squares?
We can either exercise tough love or complacency for the status code.
24 Sep 2007 at 10:49 am | #
Life…
You know
you never really know
where it’s going to lead…
but stand by it!!!!
Beat by beat by wonderful beautful beat!!!!
Under floor dust or struggling the rough terrain…
nobody ever said it would be easy…
never said it would be without death…
it’s always a good thing to be found.
Peace is being found in Cincinnati..
and so is not living on anything that is toxic!!!
Anyway just thinking about the new jail and the life of those that will be sent to prison.
Is hope dead?
No, Hamilton County and the Commissioners will find an answer…
Me? I just think we have to start with the children…
they are still being sent far away from their families
and Smitherman is not saying anything about it.
That’s worse then Bronson giving his two cents about sending them away!!!!
And with this thought about our children…
put a big Central Park where the Banks are…
let the future bankers, laborers, chefs, teachers, politicians, ceo presidents, police, firemen,
advocates, tourist, boaters, ballgamers,
discuss what they want to do with it
as they play under an open sky
under shaded trees, playing
good things that people do,
watching their chidren grow,
and that wouldn’t cost much at all…
You know life…
sometimes you just have to die to take a second glance…
and that second chance sees it always free and good.
Leave it up to the children if they want huge buildings on the Banks…
Til then build them the best park you can ever imagine!!!
Because life is…
worrying about your daughter,
who is first going out with her friends,
without any parents around.
Life is playing catch with your son.
Life is letting the dog lick your face.
Life is cleaning the cat box,
even though it’s your daughters damn cat.
Life is an ocean that grabs handfuls of sand with every rushing wave.
Life is every rushing wave sliding only so far.
Life is a cloud that that changes form with the wind
then softly drifts away without much notice
to all but children and old people.
Life is a day in the park
sleeping on a picnic table
and listening to all that you hear
but dreaming it differently.
Life is a a boy standing at the bottom of a tree
peering up into it’s pinnacle
and wondering how everyone would take notice
if he stood proudly on the highest branch.
Life is fighting for some things that are right
only to notice that some of those some things are wrong.
Life is fighting for some things that are wrong
only to make notice that some of those some things are right.
Life is turning a door handle
and entering into a room without notice.
Life is a baby suckling his mothers breast
as a toddler watches.
Life is an outdoor designed for everyone in mind… here’s a cool beer.
Life is broken windows
to be fixed.
Life is having everything in common with your brother
but agreeing on nothing.
Life is the thunderous snap of lightning
and a cricket’s nighttime chirp after the rain.
Life is talking with a sister
who loves to question your views
and in the end
she knows she’s still right.
Life is a son who laments about his fathers missing love.
Life is a father who says I love you
and a son that actually feels it.
Life is a cousin that you never really knew
but really like.
Life is a mother who puts her foot down
only to see everyone scatter.
Life is a father who puts his foot down
only to see everyone stand still.
Life is looking for that missing shoe
when you really need it.
Life is wondering where all the spoons went.
Life is staying indoors awaiting that big rainstorm that was forecast,
only to see that your day was wasted,
as not a cloud entered the sky.
Life is running up to the store,
forgetting the grocery list for those few items,
and to your surprise,
you got everything that was written.
Life is being rejected by those that you have everything in common with.
Life is two outs left in the game,
your boy’s team is up by one with bases loaded,
a ball is hit into center field,
your son is there to make the catch,
the ball pops out of his mitt,
and it teaches you a lesson not him.
Life is your wife letting you hold her,
while you lay in bed.
Life is hugging your daughters,
but not like you used to.
Life is a phone call to a sister;
just to see how she’s doing.
Life is calling that brother
after months of not calling
because he doesn’t call.
Life is not going to church
because of all the phony bolognas.
Life is when you go to church
it’s because you believe in God.
Life is tears before a wake,
laughter with those you love during the wake,
and when the casket closes with tears again.
Life is chalked pictures on driveways
and only the mean get angry at that.
Life is spilt milk
and only the impatient get angry at that.
Life is a million lost dreams of being surrounded by cash.
Life is judging everyone on your own scales.
Life is watching a clock and
wondering why it is going so slow.
Life is time flying when your late.
Life is never thanking the man
who works the sewers.
Life is being ever so grateful,
to the one who just introduced you to the next pyramid scam.
Life is wondering why you purchased that dog.
Life is not noticing the hard work and sacrifices one made to be successful.
Life is noticing how easy it was for someone to win the lottery.
(Hey that could be you!!!!! Not.)
Life is going to a family reunion and trying to remember some youngster’s name and life is knowing that that is understood.
Life is knowing that you can never go home.
Life is knowing that you can always see the ones who used to live there.
Life is being happy you held your tongue.
Life is wishing you would have said something.
Life is watching a linesman climb a wooden pole and wishing you could do that.
Life is being that linesmen wishing he didn’t have to climb that wooden pole.
Life is never finding hairbrushes, combs, or blow dryers,
when there are young women in the house. (they always take them with)
Life is a big fish that jumps out of the water,
and you cast your line in the center of it’s wake,
only to catch nothing.
Life is that small catfish,
on the end of your son’s line,
who just sat and hoped.
Life is awesome… so?
Hope!
Here’s to living, Cincinnati!!!
To: Those that love Cincinnati/Hamilton County
Remember… win or lose… it’s about the children.
And about that cool beer… Cheers!!!!
24 Sep 2007 at 12:07 pm | #
Skull & Boner:
What Pepper and treatment experts say is that the threat of jail is often the best way to get people opt for treatment. They’re not choosing it voluntarily, and you can’t force it.
24 Sep 2007 at 05:17 pm | #
Forced treatment is like hitting “rock bottom”, once a homeless alcoholic is arrested, sobered up, aware of the choices he makes, then opts not to get clean and to continue to inflict his choices on the rights of everyone else in society via these nonviolent nevertheless offensive behaviors - he has made a conscience choice and should be held accountable.
He HAS hit rock bottom and refuses to see it.
We can’t continue to throw our change in a cup and expect change to happen—we have to lead, we have to carry, we have to walk with them. Letting them blend into the scenery only devalues their lives as nothing more.
Talk about humanity? Talk about exploitation? Talk about caring?
Noone is criminalizing mental illness, addiction or homelessness - but it should certainly be a crime for society to throw up their hands in complacency - that isn’t humane
24 Sep 2007 at 07:08 pm | #
“Old Yellow Stain says:
24 Sep 2007 at 10:05 am | # “It is not hard to find where I show strong libertarian principles. Some examples follow, with special emphasis on the jail situation…....”
It looks like Captain Queeg is off his meds again. Everyone tuck in your shirt tails.”
OMG!! I spite my Pepsi ot of my nose when I read that! Hi-Larious and spot on. MEP is Captain Queeg!!
24 Sep 2007 at 07:44 pm | #
Glad youre still with us Peter and I hope you are doing well. It must be election season and I hope you have also awakened to the fact the Democratic Party does not represent “We the People” the way they use to. You have had a life changing experience and it usually makes one think about what is real and what is not.
24 Sep 2007 at 10:01 pm | #
It looks like a near trip to the Bright Light didn’t help Peter’s ‘poetry’. Please spare us from more of it.
25 Sep 2007 at 12:41 am | #
Allen, ignore “CincyCapell”. He’s a Klansman who impersonates others because he knows his unfiltered racist attitude would get himself banned here. Your posts only need to conform to The Dean’s rules, not some bitter racist who doesn’t run this site.
25 Sep 2007 at 08:52 am | #
Let me repeat my request. As I wrote in comment #11:
There have been several anonymous commentators spinning fantasies about what should be done, but no one seems to be able to find anything definite as to what would be done differently if the jail tax were to pass. Except, of course, human contact with friends and family would be sharply curtailed by permitting only video visits. And this is supposed to show the “compassion” of the jail tax supporters?
25 Sep 2007 at 09:12 am | #
Cincyjeff…
Let us not ignore Cincycapell let us embrace him and give him songs of good cheer where ever he may roam.
Maybe he needs to look at the bright side of life a little more.
This one’s for you, Cincycapell… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo
25 Sep 2007 at 05:02 pm | #
I’ve made up nothing and you’ve explained nothing. I will say that you have the politician’s bob and weave game down pat. If you can keep avoiding saying who you are, that in itself may get you in.
1. Strong civil liberty positions, especially the Bill of Rights (I keep a copy of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence by the computer).
DOES THIS INCLUDE A WOMAN’S RIGHT TO CHOOSE AND THE RIGHT OF GAYS TO MARRY? If not then claiming to be a STRONG supporter of civil liberties is deceptive. You pick and choose the ones you like.
2. Fiscally responsible government. I certainly have brought up that with respect to the jail, such as why it should cost so much, why the Sheriff has all his toys, and why did the county accept the Kahn’s site without doing an environmental site assessment.
THIS IS WHERE THE CATEGORY IN WHICH LIBERTARIANS THROW ALL THEIR OBJECTIONS TO FUNDING ANY AND ALL SOCIAL PROGRAMS. THAT’S THE ONLY THING THEY MEAN BY FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE. AGAIN DECEPTIVE.
3. Personal responsibility. I am for the legalization of marijuana, treating it like we treat alcohol (no driving under the influence). We can talk about how we handle the other drugs, but let’s admit the War on Drugs is a failure. LIBERTARIANS SUPPORT LEGALIZATION OF ALL DRUGS, NOT JUST MARIJUANA.
4. Minimal government beaurocracy. I certainly do not think someone should be brought to court and threatened with jail for having two unpainted window frames as I witnessed. I recently myself have been threatened by the city with being taken to court (fines and jail implied) if I did some tuckpointing without getting a permit first. Tuckpointing is just the replacement of where mortar has eroded from between stones, bricks, or concrete blocks. I wanted to do about 20 lineal feet total, but the inspector threatened to take me to court and said that he would be checking on me. AND THIS IS THEIR BUZZ PHRASE FOR ELIMINATING ALL GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS. ALL GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS. THEY COMBINE THIS WITH PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO PROPOSE A SOCIETY WHERE WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR TESTING FOOD, BUILDING ROADS, EDUCATING OURSELVES, GETTING WATER AND SERVICES TO OUR HOMES, ETC.
5. End of corporate welfare. See the print edition of The Cincinnati Beacon for more info. THIS, AS I’VE SAID BEFORE AND QUOTED FROM THEIR WEBSITE, WHICH YOU HAVE IGNORED, IS FULLY QUALIFIED BY LIFTING ALL REGULATIONS FROM BUSINESS MAKING IT UNNECESSARY TO GIVE CORPORATIONS A DIME BECAUSE IT WOULD CREATE SUCH A BOONDOOGLE AND UNFETTERED PROFITS LIKE NEVER SEEN BEFORE. WHY WOULD THEY NEED NICKLES AND DIMES WHEN THEY CAN LEGALLY STEAL BILLIONS UNDER THE LIBERTARIAN PLAN?
6. Protection of property rights. No taking of one’s home or business in order to give it to another for their benefit. The Ohio Supreme Court put some restrictions on this, but Cincinnati now tries to do much the same thing through other means, such as excessive beaurocracy, taxes, excessive fines and fees, abridgment of civil rights, and suspicious inspections.
7. Non-intervention in foreign policy. I’ve been against the Iraq War since before it started. I demonstrated against it in front of the Union Terminal when Bush spoke there.
6 AND 7 MAY BE THE ONLY PLATFORM ISSUES THAT ARE FORTHRIGHT.
I also suggest that people simply go to the official Libertarian Party website. The alternative to welfare that they suggest is simply the family taking care of their own. (Didn’t you address this in another recent post, that family should be paid as much as strangers to take care of their own kin? Odd position for a personal responsibilty, minimal government, less bureaucracy kind of Libertarian)
Why don’t you just run as an independent instead crippling yourself trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?
25 Sep 2007 at 05:10 pm | #
I don’t remember MEP saying he was a Libertarian. I just know they endorsed him.
26 Sep 2007 at 09:16 am | #
Minimal does not mean eliminating all government regulations. They are not anarchists. Read their website for more information.
I am a strong supporter of civil rights. I believe no rights are possible if one doesn’t have the right to life. I am also against capital punishment. It is true many libertarians do believe in a right to elective abortion, but not all.
By “right of gays to marry,” I presume that cincysue is refering to a certificate from the state. I disagree that people, including people of the same sex, need a certificate from the state in order to live together. Nothing could be further from the truth for a libertarian. If cincysue wants to live with another, go ahead. What they do in the bedroom is their business.
26 Sep 2007 at 01:38 pm | #
Cincysue’s claims are unfounded. Here’s an excerpt from the National Libertarian party website, http://www.lp.org:
I would like to point out that of all the council candidates, only Justin Jeffre and myself have made ending corporate welfare an issue. Why is cincysue so upset about our mentioning it?
In any event, as cincysue pointed out in another post, not all Libertarians agree with all aspects of the platform. I think utilities are natural monopolies and should have some regulations. I want anti-trust laws. In any event, I am running for Cincinnati city council and would have no opportunity to repeal the FEDERAL anti-trust laws or the STATE laws on utilities, even if I wanted to. But I would have an opportunity to end the city’s multi-million dollar hand-outs to just a favored few corporations and individuals. And that is what I am talking about.
26 Sep 2007 at 10:13 pm | #
This is section is about Bronson’s lies, not MEP’s platform in running for office. Keep on track here and stop detracting from the topic.