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Saturday, July 28, 2007
COAST: Efforts to block jail tax vote exposed
Posted by Michael Earl Patton
This is a newsletter from C.O.A.S.T. about the efforts of Commissioners Portune and Pepper to block the voter referendum on their recent attempt to raise the sales tax. Per the newsletter, Cincinnati City Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz is also deeply involved in the on-going attempt to frustrate the will of the voters.
The title to the C.O.A.S.T. newsletter states that Portune, Pepper, and Ghiz are “liberal.” While it is true that Portune and Pepper often talk the talk, many true liberals and progressives would say that they don’t “walk the walk,” especially when it comes to criminal justice issues. Virtually all of the liberals and progressives that I asked to sign the petition for a voter referendum opposed their plan. Further, Pepper and Ghiz strongly back Cincinnati’s criminalization of small amounts of marijuana which causes thousands to be arrested and incarcerated, overwhelmingly African-Americans. Cincinnati then uses the convictions as the basis for trying to deny them apartments in the city. I don’t know of any liberal who supports such a draconian and racist practice. I respectfully suggest to C.O.A.S.T. that they use another term when describing Portune, Pepper, and Ghiz.
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28 Jul 2007 at 01:30 pm | #
Did that COAST newsletter refer to founder Brinkman’s dress down by Judge Ruehlman for petition fraud? Did it? Huh?
Why not follow up with a quote by David Duke?
28 Jul 2007 at 02:54 pm | #
This is just corporate fascists pushing an agenda. They don’t give a shit about the people, just the profit. Time to end corporate bribery.
28 Jul 2007 at 03:09 pm | #
Please read the newsletter.
By the way, it was Judge Ruehlman who had told Sheriff Leis that he could go ahead and use county money to sue the county so that he can get a jail to warehouse even more prisoners while they are awaiting their court date. Ruehlman made this ruling without any complaint from the sheriff, either written or verbal, and without any reference to Ohio Revised Code, precedent, or explanation. The commissioners’ lawyer, Mr. Harper, was there but did not defend them. He appeared to represent both the sheriff and the commissioners. This was totally out of bounds for judicial procedure and Judge Ruehlman should be ashamed of participating in such a travesty.
Likewise, Judge Ruehlman’s hissing fit at Brinkman was out of bounds. There was no claim that Brinkman had forged any signatures. The claim was that a company he had hired had hired someone else who had forged some signatures. Further, Brinkman has done petitions many times in the past and is one of the most experienced and knowledgeable. One of the names alleged to be fake was Fidel Castro’s. Does anyone really think that Brinkman would fake that name and expect to get it past the Board of Elections?
My guess is that Ruehlman was upset at Brinkman for doing so much to collect the tens of thousands of signatures so the jail tax can be on the ballot (again). Judge Ruehlman’s passion for a big, new jail is getting the better of him.
28 Jul 2007 at 04:11 pm | #
Connecting the dots? Deductive reasoning? Ahh… we know Finney the Fink’s reasoning is so sound.
If the petitions are good, and I’d hate to see a technicality blow it, and if they have the valid number of signatures - it should go to ballot.
But, if it wasn’t done right or the signatures deficient, then we have to face the fact that a sufficient number of voters, those who wouldn’t sign, endorce the tax - and that’s all there is to it.
Everybody’s got to follow the rules.
But I think the shear number of signatures will negate any challenge—it’s going to ballot - and that’s really the best thing for the community, because it will be ratified.
28 Jul 2007 at 05:41 pm | #
So you’ve dumped the argument that just because people are on the same side of a cause, doesn’t mean they have the same principles and values? Just want to be clear. You’re defending anti-gay, anti-black, anti-poor, anti-school funding, Tom Brinkman? Of course we knew all along that the peas belonged in the same pod.
28 Jul 2007 at 06:11 pm | #
One week after a citizens group successfully showed (and a court recognized) that Brinkman, David Langdon, Finney and their minions had committed felony and fraud in their last (anti-gay) petition drive, COAST has a lot of nerve attacking anyone for wanting to simply verify that this petition drive was done properly. I guess they would argue that Equality Cincinnati “disenfranchised” them last year when they verified that Greg Korte, Tim Burke and Fidel Castro had not signed their gay-bashing petition.
The Beacon is plummeting quickly in associating with these whack-jobs. And Patton’s long-time ties to Brinkman and the other far-right nuts becomes clearer every day.
28 Jul 2007 at 07:03 pm | #
Hilarious, that’s funny, I thought it was the Board of Election’s job to verify signatures. Now suddenly these fascist want to help count?
It reminds me of when Governor Bush tried to help America vote by giving us private partisan companies to secretly count our votes (or at least white people’s votes that live in Republican districts).
It’s clear that team Leis/Pepper/Ghiz/Portune want to stiffle the will of the people again. Talk about peas in a pod!
Leave us alone and let the people decide!
I love it when anons question the credibility of the Beacon. Stick to the Enquirer if you only want pro-jail propaganda. They serve it up regularly.
28 Jul 2007 at 09:46 pm | #
HAHA,
Read the law. Because in fact, any registered voter in the County has the right to challenge a petition-just as other citizens have the right to gather petitions. Indeed, they are the ONLY people empowered to challenge a petition. And citizens have a right to inspect the petitions, which is why it sits at the auditors office for PUBLIC INSPECTION for 10 days.
If you were correct, and it had only been up to the Board of Elections last year, Brinkman and others would have gotten away with their scheme and all the forged signatures and alterations to the petitions. It was the citizens exercising their rights (I guess you’d call them “fascists”) who discovered the illegal activity, thank goodness.
28 Jul 2007 at 09:47 pm | #
While I agree with the right of the voters to get the sales tax onto the ballot, I have to laugh at COAST’s newsletter complaining about conflict of interest. This from the organization that had no problem with Chris Finney’s secret business relationship with Phil Heimlich, all while Finney was appointed to political positions by Heimlich.
I hope the tax issue makes it onto the ballot, but Chris Finney has a whole lot of remedial work to do before people will forget his disgraceful conduct under the Heimlich Reich.
28 Jul 2007 at 10:25 pm | #
Now add Ricland to the Beacon’s axis of evil: COAST, Patton, Ricland. Some sorry ass company for a supposedly “progressive” blog.
29 Jul 2007 at 01:57 am | #
I agree, what the heck has happened to the independent,progressive voice of the Beacon - we’ve got the Post and the Beacon rolling over—- it’s really sad.
Hey Dean, how are your numbers lately?
The Dispatch is reporting about Blackwell screwing with Help America Vote funds, the Governor has created a new auditing mechanism and children’s services is imploding - yet the Beacon keeps promoting the Finney-Smitherman anti-jail crap.
This is as bad as reading the Enquirer and just as boring.
29 Jul 2007 at 12:42 pm | #
Cincysue is the only one who made that argument. I never heard anyone working against the tax say that. Having so many different groups working together was a sign of their professionalism.
Of course I defended Brinkman. The accusations that Cincysue were repeating were false. Cincysue is very clear that she thinks no one should defend Brinkman based just on what she says his views are.
By the way Cincysue, how do you feel about President Roosevelt working with Stalin to defeat Hitler during the Second World War? Or do you admire the way Stalin was able to get rid of those who disagreed with him?
29 Jul 2007 at 01:02 pm | #
No court ever found that Brinkman, David Langdon, or Finney committed fraud. Nor were they ever indicted. Nor, for that matter, were they ever charged.
The very first reason why I got involved in the jail issue was because of those who plainly, up front, stated that once the police charge soneone then they are guilty and should stay locked up. People like Cincysue and Hilarious want to extend that power to themselves.
And I find it ironic that these attacks are directed primarily against Tom Brinkman. He was the only one who voted against the Ohio version of the Patriot Act in 2001. He was one of the few who voted against it in 2005. Our federal government has been insisting that it has the unlimited right to wiretap everyone (as long as they say it’s about stopping terror), to jail them, keep them locked up without a lawyer or trial indefinitely, maybe even take them out of the country, and even torture them. Tom Brinkman is one of the few elected officials who have opposed this.
Cincysue and Hilarious know that Tom Brinkman is a defender of our constitutional rights. Is that is why they oppose him?
29 Jul 2007 at 03:27 pm | #
anon2000, there’s a big difference between the Beacon and the Enquirer. The Enquirer is pushing the jail and the Beacon is questioning it. Shouldn’t media be questioning those in power? The Beacon has asked to be shown the evidence of crumbling walls and to get a tour like the editorial board of the Enquirer got. Funny they didn’t take a camera don’t you think?
The County Kings have refused to show any evidence because there isn’t any.
And once again the NAACP and other progressive groups were not only a part of the coalition but they were leading it. By all means keep repeating COAST and Finney’s name, but it doesn’t help your case when your lined up with Leis and the regressive jail tax pushers.
I don’t agree with Brinkman on much, but I do applaud him for standing up for our constitution. The other politicians that took an oath to uphold it and then turned around and shredded it are traitors and should be given the maximum punishment under the law.
29 Jul 2007 at 04:51 pm | #
So MEP you do hate gays just as much as Brinkman. Make sure you keep that message at the forefront of the campaign. It’ll get you the votes of a lot of Beacon bloggers. Certainly the Cincinnati Greens. He is defending our constitutional rights you say? I say, bullshit.
29 Jul 2007 at 06:58 pm | #
“Cincysue and Hilarious know that Tom Brinkman is a defender of our constitutional rights. Is that is why they oppose him?”
Right, MEP. It has nothing to do with the fact that he cares nothing about constitutional rights of privacy and equality unless they happen to be people who’s lifestyle he approves of. Hell, this guy even voted against the 14th Amendment! That suggests an incredibly unique and strange view of rights in post 19th century america.
Good to know MEP applauds the Brinkman view of rights.
29 Jul 2007 at 07:50 pm | #
Look at the Democrats trying to change the subject again!
cincysue, you should know that the Green Party supports gay rights and human rights in general. The Democrats are the ones that have refused to support gay marriage and instead supported gay marriage bans. You’re now resorting to straight up lying and character assassination and that’s pathetic!
We Greens take our constitution seriously and it’s too bad most Democrats and Republicans don’t. You are not a progressive. You sound more like a paranoid schizophrenic and a compulsive liar.
29 Jul 2007 at 08:56 pm | #
On the issue of marriage in general why do we need a marriage license? If marriage is between a man and a woman then why do they have to include the state? That makes it a threesome as I see it.
29 Jul 2007 at 09:14 pm | #
Blah. Blah. Blah. Ouch that really hurt Republigreen Machine. Lie with dogs and you come up with fleas. You’ve banded together in your “diverse coalition” with the worst, most organized, most visible, hate group that makes life hell and actually dangerous, for gays in Cincinnati. Brinkman is no better than Rev. Phelps with his countdown of how long Matthew Shepherd has been burning in hell. They both incite gay bashing. Don’t split hairs and pretend that isn’t important.
I know the stand that the National Greens take on gay rights and I know what I see out of the Greens here in Cincinnati and there’s no similarity. Your stupid remarks about the democrats, again, are moronic. Any and all legislature to insure gay rights has been penned by Democrats.
Ask your born-again, 99% of NAACP is Christian, candidate Chris Smitherman to make a public statement on homosexual rights especially marriage, adoption and housing. And while you’re at it ask him if homosexuality conflicts with his biblical beliefs. Seriously. Since this is right up there at the top of the Green platform (although naturally their convictions, when tested, crumbled. They caved when it came to the Millions More March exclusion of gay participation so how committed are they?) Isn’t that important for the Greens?
29 Jul 2007 at 10:44 pm | #
CincySue has become the expert at going off topic. This topic is about COAST’s efforts to protect the decision made by 57,000 Hamilton County voters to allow the people to vote on the proposed Sales Tax hike. This is not about gay marriage, past petition drives, school funding, ricland, or any other off-topic rant of Sue’s.
As for this topic, I appreciate COAST’s continued efforts to respect the rights of us voters. I’ve actually been surprised that we haven’t heard more on the legal challenges front. It’s good to see the intelligent folks at COAST aren’t using that as an excuse to let their guard down. Todd Portune, Leslie Ghiz, and David Pepper have already worked to disenfranchise the voters once, so we have to stay on guard for the possibility they’ll continue that effort.
29 Jul 2007 at 11:06 pm | #
cincysue, you voted in support of the war, the Patriot Act, NAFTA and CAFTA, privatized health care and gay marriage bans when you voted for Kerry. You’re unDemocratic party here locally is in bed with Si Leis and pushing a regressive jail tax and draconian drug laws to fill our jails up.
Your Democrats pushed the draconian marijuana ordinance that’s “a major cause of the overcrowding”, they slashed the health and human services budget while continuing to give away millions of our taxpayer dollars to 3CDC and the Chamber of Commerce. (I guess they need those big campaign contributions to keep that majority don’t they?)
You don’t know anything about the local Greens, but go ahead and keep writing your lies. We helped give the voters of Hamilton County a vote on the jail tax we just rejected last November, that doesn’t make us anti-gay, just pro-choice.
Smitherman has a strong record on supporting gay rights. Kerry and Clinton don’t!!!
30 Jul 2007 at 07:41 pm | #
Tell me the specifics again on Smitherman’s “strong record of supporting gay rights.” I can’t find it anywhere but do hope that it’s true and would love some details. And it’s a little weird to compare Smitherman to Clinton and Kerry. A local financial planner and 2 presidential candidates? And the Greens SAY they support gay rights but like I pointed out with the backpeddling on the Millions More March issue, when the rubber meets the road, they’ll often back off.
And CincyJeff I get that this is about COAST’S efforts to blah blah taxes. Not about Brinkman, who is COAST, being a homophobe a racist, anti-choice and a fraud. I wouldn’t want that constantly brought up either if we were working together. It’s really pesky and hard to explain.
30 Jul 2007 at 08:08 pm | #
cinysue, Kerry and Clinton are Democrats that have supported gay marriage bans. You lied and said that the local Greens are anti-gay and that we have a different position than the national. That’s a lie and your trying to ignore the fact that the Democrat’s last presidential candidate supported a gay marriage ban. So tell me again what the difference between the Democrats and Republicans is.
You asked what Smitherman’s stand was on gay rights and I told you his record is strong. Get off your lazy ass and do your own research. Why should I go through the votes when I was paying attention when he was on council and you’ll just try to change the subject and tell more lies about the local Green Party? You’e going to vote for your slate which is Berding, Cole, Cranley, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Why do you vote for pro-war candidates that support gay marriage bans? That’s not progressive!
30 Jul 2007 at 11:33 pm | #
What I find interesting is that I said in my article that the term “liberal” should not be applied to Portune, Pepper, and Ghiz. No one is contesting that.
Nor is anyone contesting the assertions made in the C.O.A.S.T. newsletter.
Instead, there are a couple individuals who are fixated on Brinkman and Smitherman, neither of whom had anything whatsoever to do with the contents of the newsletter.
Brinkman is opposed to elective abortion (this is what No to the 14th, #16, means by “right to privacy”). He advertises that fact in his literature. He is also opposed to capital punishment. He is consistent on this issue.
Brinkman also believes that a marriage is between a man and a woman. He doesn’t hide his opinion there, either.
Cincysue, we get it that you don’t like Brinkman and Smitherman. I note that you never answered my question about Roosevelt working with Stalin (see #12). Did that prove Roosevelt was evil? Is there any local politician whom you do like?
31 Jul 2007 at 11:46 am | #
It’s interesting that the Pepper/Portune apologists keep citing the declining population and jobs leaving our county, however they will not consider the possibility that the high taxes are one of the reasons behind that. It shouldn’t surprise anyone, even party hack democrats, that people would rather live where everything costs less. It’s definitely not the only factor behind HamCo’s loss of jobs and people, but it’s one of them.
31 Jul 2007 at 03:47 pm | #
In re: to comment 25
What is this about “a declining population”? I thought the Cincinnati was “booming”...
31 Jul 2007 at 04:44 pm | #
Pat DeWine had no answers yesterday to how he’d solve any problems related to safety. He couldn’t even produce a plan yesterday, after months of saying he knew where money was to pay for things.
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070731/NEWS01/707310383/-1/CINCI
Total embarassment.
For all the “greens” out there who like DeWine, he also attacked diversion and reentry programs as “pet projects,” and wants to cut them in favor of locking up nonviolent offenders in Butler County.
31 Jul 2007 at 04:47 pm | #
Here’s COAST’s next attack on Portune and Pepper (and the indigent care levy).
Completely manufacturing a false rumor that the indigent care levy will pay for abortions, which is simply not true. The actual origin for the screw-up here came from decisions made by DeWine and Heimlich and Ron Roberts last year, and had nothing to do with Portune or Pepper.
The Beacon should be covering this as yet another example of how pathetic COAST is. But alas, the Beacon now is in bed with COAST.
Michael Patton—you’re on one heck of a team!
_________
Commission unveils plan to fund abortions
Urgent call to action against Wednesday’s vote to delete prohibition on spending for abortions
At Monday’s staff meeting for the Hamilton County Commission, Commissioners Portune and Pepper released their draft contract with the Health Alliance that will delete a decade-old exclusion from the contract for indigent health care to allow that will now require tax dollars be spent on abortion coverage.
“Abortion is a horrific practice,” said COAST Chairman Jim Urling. “To force taxpayers who have a deep-seated moral objection to this holocaust, to spend their hard-earned tax dollars on this murderous practice is a sheer outrage. We urge COAST members to quickly spring in to action to stop this waste of monies by writing letters to the editor and calling their Commissioners.”
For decades, Hamilton County has contracted exclusively with University Hospital (operated by the Health Alliance) for the provision of health care for indigent patients who are not covered by Medicare, Medicaid or private insurance. The annual contract amount is $26 million, amounting to $130 million over the five-year contract.
For at least the past ten years, County Commissioners have specifically prohibited County monies going to fund any abortions with tax dollars. The Portune / Pepper proposal would eliminate that prohibition, allowing tax dollars to flow to fund abortions.
COAST urges its members to call Commissioner Pat DeWine (946-4406) and thank him for his courageous stand against this proposed mis-use of County tax dollars. They also encourage calls to Portune (946-4401) and Pepper (946-4410) telling them you are firmly against this outrageous mis-use of tax dollars.
31 Jul 2007 at 06:30 pm | #
What “Greens” like DeWine? Just because the Greens and the NAACP don’t want a jail tax imposed doesn’t mean they support DeWine.
Pepper and Portune have gotten in bed with Leis and their plan isn’t going to pass and that’s why they tried to impose it on us.
31 Jul 2007 at 08:14 pm | #
Mr. Patton - Don’t you think that comparing Brinkman to Stalin makes my argument rather than yours? I agree, Brinkman and Stalin are both evil.
The Beacon and the NAACP has done much to spread the word about this fringe group of a couple of people that no one took seriously. Given them a platform. What the hell has happened to the Beacon in the last year. Instead of a place where “divergent views collide” the banner should be a place where “right wing agendas are promoted.”
31 Jul 2007 at 09:29 pm | #
Hey, ANON2000: I’m glad that even someone like you can be big enough to concede that the law is the law and that if the petition is successful it will go on the ballot as well it should. That’s why I don’t understand why you come back and call it crap and complain that the beacon is boring you with the discussion. I love it that I am no longer dependent on a rag like the Enquirer to keep me informed when it comes to things as important as the jailtax issue. I will read the beacon over the Enquirer on ANY issue. As far as I am concerned, I can’t trust the Enquirer not to lie about the date, if that’s what corporate cincinnati tells it to do. If it would make a couple bucks for 3cDc, the Enquirer would have us all walking around tomorrow talking about ‘I didn’t know it was Christmas Eve!’
31 Jul 2007 at 09:38 pm | #
The Emperor brings up a good point. The Greens—and I clarify Cincinnati Republigreens, not to be confused with the nationals—enthusiastically support conservatives like Republican Dewine, Republican Brinkman, and Republican Michael Earl Patton. Continuing to claim that they’re either non-partisan or an alternate party is ridiculous. They, as well as the Dean of Cincinnati, are RepubliCANS. Why are they all so afraid to admit it?
31 Jul 2007 at 09:49 pm | #
“The Beacon and the NAACP has done much to spread the word about this fringe group of a couple of people that no one took seriously. Given them a platform.”
cincysue, what are you talking about? The Enquirer is the one that’s been promoting COAST. They were ignoring the fact that the NAACP was leading the coalition. Greg Korte said that if Smitherman wins a seat on council it would be a testiment to the power of COAST.
“What the hell has happened to the Beacon in the last year. Instead of a place where “divergent views collide” the banner should be a place where “right wing agendas are promoted.””
You’re the one that voted for a pro-war Neocon!
01 Aug 2007 at 07:26 am | #
Green Machine - Again, get a message, dude. Your stupid last line, repeated incessantly is so juvenile. So, I’ll just counter with, “you’re the one that put Bush in office” which of course was the Green’s intention. You’re the one that put Bush in office. You’re the one that put Bush in office. You’re the one that put Bush in office.
How about “you’re responsible for the war because we all knew that if Bush got in he would attack Iraq.” Imagining what Democrats would have done is simply conjecture, because they didn’t. We knew what your Republicans would do if they go in, especially after the first term, and they did just what we knew they would. And you’re responsible. The Greens put Bush in office. The Greens put Bush in office. The Greens put Bush in office. How’s that weigh on your conscience???
01 Aug 2007 at 12:23 pm | #
That, of course, is not at all what I wrote. If someone doesn’t like someone’s position on something, it is fair to say so. What the above comment is about is cincysue’s repeated claim that people who work together towards a common goal share common philosophies across the board. Therefore, I asked, does this mean Roosevelt and Stalin are the same because they worked together to defeat Hitler? Did working with Stalin make Roosevelt evil? Cincysue cannot bring herself to answer the question.
Unlike cincysue, I do not claim that Brinkman, Smitherman, and myself share the same philosophies, reasons, and goals just because we all worked on lettng the people have a vote on the jail tax.
People who have read the Beacon for a while know that I opposed the earlier Heimlich/Portune jail tax, too. C.O.A.S.T. was silent on this issue last year—I was not. (DeWine, who supported it earlier, recognizes that the voters have spoken on this issue.) Heimlich is no longer in office, but Portune refuses to concede the issue.
01 Aug 2007 at 12:47 pm | #
Actually, The Cincinnati Post had a somewhat different take on this. We know the Enquirer’s official position is for the jail. The article quoted by #27 is a perfect example what there is a need for a counter voice to the Enquirer’s propaganda.
The Post article has a statement by Pat DeWine that he could not get estimates from Christian Sigman, the budget director for the county. Since this area has been opened up by #27, let me relate what happened to me while I was petitioning. Christian Sigman came up to a woman who was in the process of signing one of my petitions. He berated me, saying that I was telling lies in an attempt to get her to stop signing. This was blatant interference with a legal process. By the way, other than repeating that I was a liar and telling lies, he had no specifics. So I absolutely believe Pat DeWine when he says that he is not getting any cooperation from Christain Sigman.
And that sort of behavior seems to be typical of Cincysue and The Emporer Has No Clothes. They are the ones telling lies and apparently think that by yelling “liar!’ often enough and loud enough that some people will start to believe them. That is an absolutely pathetic way of running a county.
01 Aug 2007 at 12:52 pm | #
The above article has nothing whatsoever to do with the indigent care levy or abortion. Cincysue for some time has been trying to tie a vote on the jail tax levy with a vote on abortion. If she or Go Coast!!! want to write an article to the Beacon based on that, go ahead an submit one. If they want to write an article against C.O.A.S.T. and submit it, it won’t be the first one that has been printed in the Beacon.
01 Aug 2007 at 11:00 pm | #
Michael Earl Patton as the new publisher of the Beacon I thank you for your invitation to write an article. But this doesn’t warrant an article. It’s not news that you, and like-minded conservative Republicans are anti-choice. Even the Dean, after relating a story in his own life indicated that he’s against a woman’s right to choose. And each of you have defended Brinkman’s racist, sexist positions at one time or another.
The local Greens, Republicans and “Green Libertarians” are quite comfortable with each other and have no big differences and will be working together on other issues in the future most probably to fight funding for social programs and education. You’re all so comfortable together in fact that this new joint venture, the Conservative Beacon, was born.
MEP - you’re a candidate for City Council. Say clearly where you stand on these issues. Stop tap dancing. Gay rights? A woman’s right to choose? The war? Privitization of civil service jobs? Minimum wage? Be more outfront than those council members you and your cohorts castigate so often and so loudly. Who are you? What is YOUR platform? What will you be fighting for, proposing? What makes you different?
02 Aug 2007 at 12:22 pm | #
I’ve answered all of these at one time or another in The Cincinnati Beacon, some in specific response to a question of yours in the past. But since you have apparently forgetton, I’ll repeat:
“Gay rights:” I believe marriage is between a man and a woman.
“A woman’s right to choose:” I believe elective abortion is the ending of an innocent life.
“The war:” I have been consistently against the Iraq War since before it started. When President Bush was at Union Terminal drumming up support for the war, I was outside with a sign “War is Not the Way.” When Crowley proposed his resolution against the recent surge, I criticized him in this space for not opposing the war itself—only the surge.
“Privatization of civil service jobs:” I have consistently and regularly criticized 3CDC in this space for taking over public space and basically making it private. I am opposed to the privatization of roads, bridges, and utilities, which other jurisdictions have done. That does not mean that Cincinnati must continue doing everything that it is currently doing. For example, it has 3 golf courses out in the suburbs, outside of city limits. I see no reason why that is so, and I am not going to pledge that those golf courses must remain city courses. Therefore, I am not going to say that each and every civil service job position must be protected at all costs for all time, which I guess is what you want to hear. A member of council must serve all the people of Cincinnati. If you want more specifics, ask a specific question.
“Minimum wage:” Again, I have said in this space that I signed the petition for an increase in the minimum wage.
Cincysue’s questions lack specifics so I am answering them the best I can. I want to point out that she still has 1) not answered the question as to whether Roosevelt’s working with Stalin to defeat Hitler showed that Roosevelt was evil (she insists that people working towards a common goal have similar politics across the board), and 2) not stated whom she supports locally.
I have also written about how the city discriminates against those who do not have piles of money, how the city favors the giant corporations with special tax breaks and favors, against the re-criminalization of marijuana, and how the city is attempting de facto ethnic cleansing. Since cincysue seems to be opposed to everything for which I stand, one might reasonably conclude that she is for all these things herself. From her statement (#38) one might also conclude that all Republicans stand with me in opposing the Iraq War and feel the same as I do on the other issues.
Clearly Cincysue is a pro-war, pro-big business favoritism, pro-privatization, pro-jail surge, pro-ethnic cleansing, anti-minimum wage, pro-drug war Democrat.
02 Aug 2007 at 12:34 pm | #
And, because people like cincysue don’t understand that you can be friends with people who do not agree with you on everything, I might as well clarify where I agree with and do not agree with Patton.
Gay marriage: I have no problem with the idea of gay marriage. I do not think Patton is prejudiced against gays from a social perspective. We have discussed this extensively before. I think he finds the blatant prejudice that Blacks have historically suffered different from the prejudice experienced by gays, and as such he does not want to weaken the civil rights of blacks by extending them to groups who do not have the same history of institutionalized and blatant discrimination.
Abortion: I continually do not know how to make up my mind about abortion. My wife, for example, is vehemently against abortion. Sometimes, I wonder what kinds of population problems we’d be having if not for abortion… But I would never want an unborn child of mine aborted. Still, I don’t know how to decide. I think I’ll remain forever undecided on this one. I do think the anti-abortion activists are a bit crazy. Sometimes, I think of going to planned parenthood with a small charcoal grill, to cook steak next to the sign of the bloody fetuses.
I think I agree with Patton on everything else above.
02 Aug 2007 at 04:12 pm | #
Dean and MEP,
You are wasting your time responding to cincysueage. It is clear that no matter how much time you spend or how persuasive your points are it has fingers in ears shouting nah, nah, nah.
The same obfuscation used numerous times in the past are being used again. It’s the Greens, Brinkman, Smitherman, blah, blah. The world from which it comes is the same world from which our silent friend Yossarian(GM) spouts. Their world is black or white with no place for humanity. More tax and spend political views. For claiming to support peoples rights they surely will lock you up if they had their way. They are corporate whores and they are paid to be whores for the corporate party, like Pepper and Portune. To hell with the people, they don’t matter, we will just continue to terrorize them until we get what we want. Fear is the tool of fools.
Look at the history. When the money at the top couldn’t justify their plan to the citizenry they attempted an end run. You knocked them out of bounds with the petition drive and now they are huddling to figure a way to get’er done. They threatened the Sheriff would sue the county if he didn’t get his way. The jail is crumbling. We don’t have enough space and will have to set prisoners free.
The Sheriff works for the people that elect him. Not the voters but the corporate masters on Fourth Street. Can you say Si anara?
02 Aug 2007 at 07:33 pm | #
MEP - Thanks for clarifying your positions. It’s very helpful. Your ridiculous Stalin/Roosevelt analogy doesn’t deserve a response because it has nothing at all to do with this issue. Trivializing the holocaust and the killing of millions by comparing it to the half penney sales tax issue is well, insensitive at the least. Are you a holocaust denier? Just asking. Your silly little summmary at the end describes you—the conservative Republican landbaron, not me, the Progessive. Swift boating by calling somebody else what you are, isn’t working anymore.
Dean I have acquaintances that have politically opposite views—not friends. I’m talking about the big things. I have friends that oppose the jail tax. It’s just not that big a deal. But not someone that supports discrimination against gays. Especially someone that makes the ridiculous claim that you say MEP makes. He doesn’t want to minimize the impact of racial discrimination against blacks by supporting gays (though he doesn’t mind trivializing the holocaust). Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought MEP was a rich, white guy, usually not a group at the forefront of the civil rights fight. And I wouldn’t be throwing back beers with a racist, or a pro-war advocate or a Bushite or for that matter someone that wants to defund the public school system and deprive children that aren’t wealthy, of a free education and call them a friend. So no, you’re right, I don’t understand it if it’s not a business relationship or blood relative that you can’t completely eliminate from your life.
Now Dean that’s fine that your wife is vehemently opposed to abortion. She certainly should never have one. I just hope that she’s not trying to force her views on women that believe in the right to choose and control their own bodies. And afterall, as we all know and the Center for Disease Control confirms, African American women are twice as likely as white women and three times more likely than hispanic women to have an abortion. So this is certainly an issue that touches on race as well as gender and economics. Wealthy white women have always been able to secure a safe abortion and always will whether it’s legal or not.
And Anon, the catch phrase “tax and spend” of course shows who you are and what you are. A Republican capitalist, unwilling to pay your fair share.
Enough kids?
02 Aug 2007 at 07:43 pm | #
cincysue,
That last message really highlights either your inability to or your refusal to read and think.
1. Patton did not trivialize the holocaust. He made a comparison through analogy. Unless you can show, logically, that the analogy is false, you are running from the point.
2. I don’t know that I would consider Patton a “rich white guy.” But I don’t typically make it a policy for people to show me their bank accounts before I befriend them.
3. Really? All your friends agree with you on everything? Or just the big things? Well, for me, some big things in Cincinnati right now are these: putting the jail tax to a vote, opposing corporate welfare, keeping health clinics and pools open, supporting the human services funding in the budget, repealing the criminalization of marijuana in Cincinnati, finding creative ways to get people out of jail who don’t need to be there, and cutting back the property tax. I think I agree with Patton on all of those.
(The property tax is a new thing. Being in the market for a new house, I’m offended at having to spend $200 per month—at the low end of what I’m looking to buy—for property tax.)
02 Aug 2007 at 09:43 pm | #
Wow. What happened to your favorite phrase of 2007—white male privilege—which you applied to everyone except of course, privileged white males like yourself, Jeffre and Patton.
Yes the analogy does trivialize the holocaust. I responded in the way I wanted to respond. He’s very pleased with himself adn he THINKS he made a good point so he keeps belaboring it, but he didn’t. (see my response above and previously). It’s only applicable in that Stalin and Brinkman are similar. Period. And is he, like Mel Gibson, a holocaust denier? Again, just asking.
I think your last paragraph about property taxes is the setup for your next “cause” which I predict will be working toward defunding the public school system under the guise of what? individual rights? money being wasted? teachers get a free ride? (all COAST arguments).
I actually have a certain respect for an outfront right-wing, corrupt, elitist bigot like Brinkman, because you know what you’re getting. Let the buyer beware. It becomes a clear, unambivalent fight. It’s trickier dealing with people that have no real convictions but still fancy themselves activists. Their views change with the wind. Like clay, they’re malleable, easily influenced by whomever is their best friend of the day. You never know from day to day what they stand for, because they don’t know.
02 Aug 2007 at 10:07 pm | #
White male privilege? You mean like when a white guy like Todd Portune goes to the NAACP and tells them what they’d better support, if they know what’s good for them?
02 Aug 2007 at 10:41 pm | #
Nah. Todd Portune has devoted the last couple decades to public service. And you know he didn’t dictate to anyone. It’s quite presumptuous of you to speak for the NAACP. Todd’s a Commissioner acting in that role. You’ve made this nasty and personal. He was respectful enough to take it to the NAACP. He certainly didn’t have to. Black people aren’t the only people in jail. No. What I’m referring to is white guys, from a certain background, that try really hard to care about issues that affect poor people and minorities and other things that make them feel part of a social movement. And sometimes they talk a good game. And sometimes they’re even sincere. But, try as they may, eventually they crack under the pressure and their actual, not imagined, white male privilege instincts draw them back to where they’re most comfortable. Voile, the new Conservative Beacon.
02 Aug 2007 at 11:04 pm | #
Cincysueage,
Old tricks don’t work anymore. Ratchet it up a notch with your discussion of white male privilege. Someone might take the bait, but I doubt it.
03 Aug 2007 at 12:15 am | #
I repeat, it was Cincysue who claimed that working with someone towards a comon goal means that one shares the other’s whole philosphy. I asked a question—does this mean Roosevelt is just as evil as Stalin? She refuses to answer. (By the way, I disagree with Cincysue’s premise—it is possible for greatly different people to work towards a common goal just like the NAACP and COAST worked together to put the recessive jail tax on the ballot; and how Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin worked together to defeat Hitler.)
And she still refuses to answer what local politician she does support, although Todd Portune (#46) seems a likely candidate. “Devoted” years to public service? Is that what one calls it when one gets paid almost $100,000 a year for a part-time job? I assure everyone here that I am nowhere near that salary range and most white males aren’t, either. Or white females, for that matter.
I am also tired of Cincysue escalating the charges. Next she’ll be accusing me of being allied with Osama Bin Ladin. So much Sturm und Drang.
03 Aug 2007 at 07:06 pm | #
I just asked. Why not answer?
03 Aug 2007 at 11:00 pm | #
I like Crowley. He shows up at every anti-war demonstration and was recently honored for his unwavering support of gay rights. He’s also done some good work advocating for the elderly, etc. He’s on the good side of most fights. I was pleased to see Fanon Rucker appointed judge because of his work on the Innocence Project and Cranley has a solid record in that area also. I would like to have seen him unseat Chabot, but maybe the next time. And I like Portune. The mayor’s a nice figurehead and represents the city well if that’s all you want in a mayor. There are no shining stars in the local political scene. Most are just clamoring for name recognition and bigger things. No heart or commitment to dealing with what’s really going on in the city.
And yes I believe that Portune has devoted years to public service and that he still is. If you want to frame that as an overpaid, part-time position it sounds like another attack. So you open it up to analyze your idol, Smitherman’s paltry political contributions as corporate Cincinnati’s welfare advocate on council before he was wisely booted out after only one term.
06 Aug 2007 at 11:19 am | #
I like Rucker, voted for him for Prosecutor, and wish he was in my district so I could vote for him for judge.
Cranley wimped out on Iraq, stating that he would insist that Bush produce a plan for victory there. But that race was outside my district anyways. On council he has been the most visible backer of special tax breaks and handouts to a select few corporations.
Crowley is right on the marijuana ordinance, but then goes and votes for TIF districts which are used by the city for corporate welfare. Neighborhoods like Mt. Washington and the West End see their taxes go up so that Cincinnati can give millions of dollars to a select few.
I wouldn’t call him my “idol” (there you go again, making things up), but Smitherman understands why police-community relations are in such tension in some neighborhoods.
I am working on an article on the corporate handouts the city promised last week.