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Monday, February 26, 2007
3CDC Opened Fountain Square Garage Despite Risks
Posted by The Dean of Cincinnati
Photo courtesy of here.
Yesterday, we published these exclusive photos of leaks in the Fountain Square parking garage, which was opened to the public a few months ago. Today, we have a statement from Bill Donabedian of 3CDC—who has totally downplayed these leaks, as if they are part of 3CDC’s plan to roll out Fountain Square development in stages.
“Nothing has gone wrong,” insists Donabedian, in an email to The Cincinnati Beacon. “As you can see, there is work being done on the restaurant - which is next to the pavilion elevators - and work being done on the south side of 5th Street - which is over the Westin elevators. Both those areas are exposed and water proofing is still being done in those areas. By Opening Day, the work that impacts those areas should be done and there shouldn’t be any more leakage.”
To supporters, this sounds (at first glance) like a perfectly logical statement; for critics, this sounds like more of the same from 3CDC—a project that was supposed to be done early autumn last year is still experiencing delays. How many delays before the whole story loses all semblance of credibility?
Regardless your predisposition towards 3CDC, taking Donabedian at his word seems to open the door on even more mismanagement.
Donabedian’s statement indicates that 3CDC is totally aware of the exposed areas of the garage near each set of elevators (and subsequently near each set of stairs). By opening the garage before completing the waterproofing project on street level, has 3CDC put visitors to their parking garage in danger?
Consider, for example, the following image (which we did not post in yesterday’s piece):
Photo courtesy of here.
By opening a garage with exposed areas over each elevator and stairwell, has 3CDC created a situation where people are at risk? Should 3CDC purposefully open a parking garage when they know people will be walking on wet steps?
Though the handicapped parking space in this next photo is near the elevators, does that explain why water was dripping out of pipes?
Photo courtesy of here.
Unfortunately, Donabedian’s response to the leaking raises more questions than it answers. If 3CDC knowingly opened an incomplete and leaky garage to the public, they have knowingly created a situation that could be dangerous—while at the same time wasting the money used to paint the interior, knowing they would have to re-do everything once they actually finished the job.
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26 Feb 2007 at 08:27 pm | #
Corporate development/renovation in Cincinnati makes “cluster-” seem like half a word. The leaking garage was the reason for the Fountain Square Folly in the first place.
26 Feb 2007 at 09:49 pm | #
This is serious and a disaster waiting to happen. Why is it opened?? And from the looks of it, it will not be ready by Opening Day. Is that the rush? I hope they set aside some that $100million to pay for damages to cars and personal injuries. That’s just beyond dumb to put people at risk like that.
26 Feb 2007 at 09:54 pm | #
Beacon, I think you really have a big story here. There’s something they are not telling.
26 Feb 2007 at 10:01 pm | #
3CDC is all wet!
26 Feb 2007 at 11:01 pm | #
Oh No! Water! I’m Melting! I know my mom told me not to swim in it for a half hour after eating but she never told me how dangerous it was to walk in a quqrter inch deep puddle. Thanks Dean you probably saved countless lives by raising the alarm here.
27 Feb 2007 at 12:44 am | #
I brought your previous post to my coworkers’ attention at 5, and Karin Johnson is doing the story tonight. Surprise, surprise, Bill said the same thing to her that he did do you guys.
27 Feb 2007 at 01:01 am | #
Beacon, can you get a comment from Cranley, Crowley, Tarbell, Cole, and Monzel about how they feel for wasting taxpayer money and if they intend to sue for breach of contract? Not only cant these 3CDC “businessmen” stick with their project management timeline (remember the celebration despite the work not being done?), they are also not able to deliver what they promised AFTER the work is completed.
27 Feb 2007 at 01:12 am | #
JFD, water and stairs don’t mix to well. At least that’s what your mom told me.
27 Feb 2007 at 01:37 am | #
OK. So let me get this straight. The garage needed a $100 million rehaul to the crumbling structure.
That $100 million dollar rehaul consisted of redoing the roof & slapping a fresh coat of paint on everything.
Is that all that is really getting done. Somehow I had the impression that there were structural issues that needed to be addressed.
27 Feb 2007 at 02:27 am | #
Funnelcake, 3CDC needed a huge infusion of corporate welfare/public funds. They bought all the politicians on the cheap ($100,000)except Smitherman . If you own city council and the mayor you can “lease”/steal a revenue stream that’s worth over $100 million for a sweatheart deal of only $3.5 million.
It’s a steal of a deal for 3CDC but parking in Cincinnati is going to get too expensive for everybody except the rich.
You also have to own a lapdog media that looks the other way and repeats lies about the deal to the public. Margaret Buchanan (president of the Enquirer)is 3CDCs PR person and the Enquirer/WCPO spin their corporate propaganda by disguising it as news.
Having events on our formerly public sqaure is also much more expensive now and you have to go through our new privatized and unaccountable planning department/fascist secret government for permits, programing and scheduling.
27 Feb 2007 at 10:47 am | #
WTF,
Have you ever heard of a hand rail? People use them to keep from falling down the stairs.
Dean,
Are any of the alarmists out there, experts in construction technology or processes? If you were, you would know that sometimes it rains before the roof is finished. A more productive, and intelligent approach would be to bring the problem to the contractor/developers attention; without all of the alarmist hype. If it leaks after they say it’s done, then you have a story. On the other hand if your purpose is to attack 3CDC for any remotely plausable reason then you have gone down the right road.
27 Feb 2007 at 01:47 pm | #
Water on the steps can be a problem- although probably not a huge one. If the structure can be used for its intended purposes (parking cars) then it is substantially complete. They will find issues (such as leaks) with the work for years to come which will need to be resolved as they crop up- this isn’t at all uncommon. It would be more uncommon to have no problems whatsoever.
It should be noted that I don’t know anything about this particular project
27 Feb 2007 at 03:43 pm | #
JFD and Matt, here’s the thing. The whole reason we gave 3CDC $100 million dollars in the first place was to fix the damn leaks. We didn’t want the fountain moved. Here we are well passed the time that the project was supposed to be finished. They told everyone it was going to be done, it’s not. They repainted the garage and now our money has been wasted because it obviously needs to be painted again.
When we give away $100 million dollars to have a leaky garage fixed, I expect it to be fixed when they say it will be fixed. Not after the reopening and it’s been repainted.
JFD, you don’t need a degree in construction to see that the garage still leaks after it was supposed to be completed. Yes, there are hand rails but standing in puddles of water messes up your shoes and can be dangerous when you’re going up and down stairs.
Your an apologist for 3CDC and probably an employee and corporate kiss ass. When $100 million of our tax dollars are spent we have a right to watch and complain if it’s being miss spent. This deal was a sham from the start and 3CDC needs to be shut down.
$100 million dollars down the drain, a garage that still leaks and “there’s no problem”? That’s BS and you can keep shovelin it, but we’re not buying it anymore.
27 Feb 2007 at 04:04 pm | #
Oh no! A water leak! We’re all going to die! What’s wrong with our City? Can people around here (Beacon and the rest of the media) be positive for once? Has anyone seen or experienced the success of the rink? The new garage is actually much much much better than before.
If you look at the site, Donabedian is absolutely correct. Just look at the side walk in front of the Westin, of course water will get in there until it’s weather tight. Big deal. STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE!
By the way, has it ever crossed anyone’s mind that maybe the Westin wouldn’t let them work until now? Why is everything 3CDC’s fault? You guys make me sick.
27 Feb 2007 at 04:10 pm | #
Mrs. Buchannan is not their PR person, she just sits on the board.
It was a 42 million dollar project NOT 100 Million, of which ONLY 4 MILLION was from the city, i.e. your tax money. 4 Million, that’s it. If you’re going to complain and speak with some kind of assumed authority then at least get the facts straight first.
27 Feb 2007 at 04:31 pm | #
We only have thirty-nine years left on this agreement. Where is the clawback in this contract and what is being done about it? We have politicians that benefit from corporate funding but the peoples square has been privatized and the private/public partnership is not benefiting anybody but the private side. The public side only gets to pay handsomely for the deceit while the corporate wizards make tax dollars disappear, magic happens. If the politicians don’t hold contractors accountable then we must hold them to account for their incompetence.
27 Feb 2007 at 06:09 pm | #
“What’s wrong with our City?”
3CDC owns the politicians and is gentrifying OTR, privatizing public spaces and acting as an unacountable fascist secret government.
“Can people around here (Beacon and the rest of the media) be positive for once?”
Why would the Beacon and the rest of the media be positive about a leaky garage that was supposed to be fixed by last Octoberfest? Especially when we overpaid so much money for it.
“Has anyone seen or experienced the success of the rink?”
Who cares, the old square had an ice skating rink and places to sit. Not everybody likes to ice skate and the public didn’t approve of moving the fountain.
“The new garage is actually much much much better than before.”
Are you kidding me? Did you see the leaks all over the place, chipped paint, moldy pipes, caution tape blocking the stairs, water in the stairwells and elevators?
“If you look at the site, Donabedian is absolutely correct.”
Donabedidian, said “there’s no problem”.
There’s obviously a problem.
“Just look at the side walk in front of the Westin, of course water will get in there until it’s weather tight. Big deal. STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE!”
There’s water coming down all over the garage, not just on the Westin side. STOP BEING AN IDIOT!
“Why is everything 3CDC’s fault?”
They are in charge of the project, duh!
“You guys make me sick.”
The video and pictures of the leaky garage make me sick.
27 Feb 2007 at 06:32 pm | #
“Mrs. Buchannan is not their PR person, she just sits on the board.”
Her corporate propaganda disguised as news was written by her paid stenographers as the Beacon reported. They didn’t disclose the boss woman’s position in 3CDC in their warm and fuzzy corporatey reviews. The Dean also reported how 3CDC makes it difficult to access the board members on the 3CDC web site. It’s more secrecy from the pigs at the trauth.
27 Feb 2007 at 06:52 pm | #
Anon, since you appear to be one of the 3CDC employees that are paid to spread their lies and corporate propaganda.
The city gave up $4 million up front and the annual garage revenue for the term of the 40 year lease.
That was $1.8 million a year according to the Business Courier and 3CDC already raised the parking rates (and their profits). They also raised the costs of having a protest or event on the square and you have to go through them for permits, programming and scheduling. We can expect the rates to rise over 40 years and it’s all at the discretion of our new secret government.
The lease was originally a 50 year lease and the 3CDC owned council was going to vote for it even though Christopher Smitherman negotiated the deal down to 40 years and saved us well over $20 million. Thanks Mr. Smitherman! I wish the people had an advocate on council still.
The taxpayers have a right to know why they are going to have to pay more for parking and how much. The Dean asked 3CDC how much they projected the annual revenue from the garage to be and was told “that’s private information”. Ask the 3CDC owned politicians what it is and they don’t have a clue, except for Smitherman. So please stop spreading your $42 million dollar lie!
27 Feb 2007 at 09:45 pm | #
I’m glad everyone is so negative around here. I’m glad that we all agree that 3CDC is the worst thing to happen to Cincinnati. You all are right. Progress is bad. What was I thinking? No wonder Cincinnati lost it’s population faster than any city in the entire country last year. Why would a group like 3CDC try and reverse that trend? Those idiots.
27 Feb 2007 at 10:16 pm | #
Sorry Anon, we’ll try to put on a happy face and pretend that this is progress. It’s just that it looks like waste fraud and abuse.
Gentrification is progress in your book? Leaky garages that will be painted over and over again because it’s not done right the first time aren’t progress. Why should we care about delayed projects and cost over runs just because we pay for it? Ignorance is bliss so I’m sure you’re happy about all this “progress”.
27 Feb 2007 at 10:44 pm | #
I agree with Anon #20 and all the others who want to look at the bright side! For 4 million/100 million, whatever the price, look at it as a high profile habitat for all kinds of biologic life, somewhat like an extension of the Zoo. In the summer with all the sitting water we will end up with an exquisite tropical mosquito pond and additionally, we can have an up close and personal experience with fungi and other microbes thanks to the mold & mildew growing on the water-logged walls. Dont waste money on paint, let nature take its course. Maybe some new organism will be discovered if it’s left alone long enough.
If 3CDC is reeeeeeeally smart, they will lobby the council to put a tax levy on the ballot to support this parking garage/wildlife endeavor, the newest tourist attration in the city!
28 Feb 2007 at 11:00 am | #
I think folks are being a bit too harsh here. Have you seen in front of the Westin. Of course it’s gonna leak, there’s a big hole in the ground. Let’s wait until they finish the work in that area and then see. I think that’s a more responsible approach than panic…On the other hand that video was awfully revealing. I have to think though it’s because there’s heavy construction directly above.
28 Feb 2007 at 11:06 am | #
$1.8M a year in gross revenue over 40 years comes to $72M, add the $4M that the City kicked in and that comes to $76M. Then you have to subtract a one time lease payment to the City of $7.5M, that takes you back to $68.5M. 3CDC put in $40M which takes you down to$28.5M. I didn’t find operational (salries, insurance, ect.) and maintinance costs for the garage but, you need to back those figures out of the gross revenue as well if you want an accurate picture of the finances. For a facility that size over 40 years, I’m guessing there isn’t going to be a large amount left over; and what is left, will have to go into other projects because 3CDC is a non profit corporation. So why does the $100M number for this project keep getting tossed around?
Just for the record, I have absolutly no affiliation with 3CDC or anyone who works for them or with them.
28 Feb 2007 at 02:31 pm | #
JFD, I forgot to metion the $500,000 that the city will continue to pay for maintanence on top of the square, that’s another $20 million.
If I give you 7.5 and you hand me 4 of it right back, how much did I really give you?(3.5)
3CDC hasn’t put in $40 million, they are going to use the garage revenue and you can’t add in inflation of costs and forget to add the inflation of revenues and plus we can assume that 3CDC will continue to raise rates however they want. 3CDC has projections but that is “private information” and their little minions on council don’t have a clue. Just ask them.
3CDC is a nonprofit but 5/3 a for profit is not only on the board but has big loans coming thier way. Can you say conflict of interest boys and girls? These loans will be refinanced a couple of times but that’s propably private information. The public funds are paying for this but there is no oversight and council is too owned and inept to do anything about it.
So JFD, the real question is why is 3CDC and Margaret Buchanan’s Enquirer throwing around the $4 million lie when the public amount is over $100 million. Again it would’ve been a 50 year deal except Smitherman fought for the public.
28 Feb 2007 at 03:38 pm | #
4CDC
The $42.5M that 3CDC borrowed through a bond issuance I counted as being paid back as part of the operational expenses. As far as I know they only have a letter of credit from 5/3 Bank as security for the bonds, no loan. The surface maintiance was not being paid out of the parking revenue before and it is still public space with permits being issued by the City. So your contention that 3CDC is getting an extra $20M over the life of the lease is wrong.
You still haven’t explained your math that comes up with a windfall for 3CDC in excess of $100M. The work on the garage was going to cost what it cost whether the City or 3CDC did it and you don’t seem to take that into account either.
28 Feb 2007 at 03:49 pm | #
4CDC - it seems you have an awful lot of assumptions in your argument here - “we can assume that 3CDC will continue to raise rates” Plus, how do you know what they are going to do with their money? How do you know they will re-finance? How are you so sure that there’s a back door deal between them and 5/3rd that you suggest?
“I forgot to metion the $500,000 that the city will continue to pay for maintanence on top of the square.” Have you actually seen these final numbers, or know for a fact that they have a 500k contract to do this? Can you please share that with us all?
JFD makes a very good point. 3CDC is a non-profit. It’s illegal for them to make money.
28 Feb 2007 at 04:22 pm | #
3CDC is a non-profit, which means they cannot sell stocks to investors. The corporation, insofar as it is a corporate entity, cannot itself make money. But the people working for it can keep all they can.
So, if someone talks about 3CDC making money, that person is simply using personification—referring to the people involved in the corporation, not referring to the corporation selling stock.
At least, that is what everyone I have talked to in casual conversation has meant and understood in saying such phrases.
We have had them tell us directly about refinancing and the city’s expense for maintanence.
I don’t have time to watch this whole clip again, but in this video you can hear a 3CDC rep say, point blank, that at some point they will have to refinance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4AUfmqrgHU
28 Feb 2007 at 04:46 pm | #
5/3 is on the Board of 3CDC (the"nonprofit”) and making for profit loans to 3CDC at conventional rates without any public oversight. It smells like (corruption) business as usual waiting to happen. 3CDC/5/3 can refinance at any rate and time they choose and that’s “private information” that the public isn’t allowed to know about.
Do you smell something? (Fascism)
28 Feb 2007 at 05:42 pm | #
I smell a good deal for 5/3rd. Good for them if they make money - it’s called business. Large banks like that fund large developments like Fountain Square all the time. 3CDC isn’t getting a kick-back. What’s the problem?
28 Feb 2007 at 06:11 pm | #
Anon, if you are a CEO of 5/3 and on the board of a “nonprofit” like 3CDC and that “nonprofit” takes our public dollars and gives 5/3 huge profits without any public over sight, that is a conflict of interest. We don’t know who gets kick backs if there’s no oversight, that’s the problem.
28 Feb 2007 at 07:00 pm | #
Private money
28 Feb 2007 at 10:26 pm | #
What a news worthy story! This is journalism at it’s best! I’m glad I’ve been made aware of this terrible problem that’s plaguing our city. For awhile there I thought crime and poverty were big issues. Thanks for re-setting what I thought my priorities were.
01 Mar 2007 at 08:49 am | #
You thought crime and poverty were issues? How about corporate welfare while human services get cut!
01 Mar 2007 at 10:23 am | #
Please explain what human services have been cut as a result of Fountain Square.
01 Mar 2007 at 01:16 pm | #
Quick, someone better get down to the Square garage today. It’s raining again.
01 Mar 2007 at 01:31 pm | #
3CDC is using our money. Now we have to pay more for parking and events on our square because they’re greedy corporate scum. Even Channel 5 proved 3CDC is lying about the money.
We’re aren’t going to see the big fees for a few years, byt 3CDC is already sticking it to us. Then there’s 3CDCs scam in OTR.
01 Mar 2007 at 09:16 pm | #
Is there a Blog on this site? It seems that there should be one. Heck you could devote one to just 3CDC and I’m sure it would be very active. I happen to think what they’re doing in OTR will be a positive thing for the City, but I’m certainly willing and would like to discuss it.
As for Fountain Square, I don’t think the parking is ripping anyone off. It’s pretty cheap to park down there; especially considering other cities. I have no opinion yet about the Square itself until they take the rink down, although I have to say I was very impressed with the rink. I went down a few times, had a blast, and it was packed. It’ll be interesting to see it without.